Reptile & Amphibian Forums

HI I'm Brian and I'm new to this site. I've had a few hot snakes years ago during the Jake the Snake Roberts days. He used my burmese on TV a few times, this is how I got my snakes. Through his handler which was Albert Killian of which you may have heard of. He is the director of Herp. at the Out-Post in florida. He was the first to breed the borneo bat eating python and the 1st to cross a burmese with a retic. He gave me a black and white spitting cobra and a monicle cobra also a northern copperhead and 2 dusky pygmys and 2 western diamondbacks and a temple viper. Then with the birth of my children I got out of the hobby. Well I have missed having these beautiful animals now for 20 years and decided to get just one or a pair. My wife is dead set against the super hots and I agreed, even though my black and white spitter was the nicest animal I ever owned. As far as the on the mild toxic side I'm considering either a copperhead or a dusky. I want something that has color and not as demanding as a temple viper. So which of the 2, copperhead or pygmy, do you guys think would be my best choice? If you have any other suggestions I would like to hear them. briguert57@comcast.net

I strongly recommend you get what you want to work with, not what someone else recommends you get. If you have the proper experience keeping and handling venomous snakes, from pit vipers to elapids, and you live in an area where it is legal, then the people here can't really give you a recommendation based on your experience level. It sounds like your wife is wanting you to avoid anything that is very toxic, so you're probably maritally limited to native animals. Just be sure, again, that what you get is what you want - otherwise you are likely to loose interest more quickly.

By the way, you mentioned something about your friend being the first to breed the "Borneo bat eater" and cross a burm with a retic. Just to clarify, those are one in the same. The "bat eaters" are just the nickname given to that hybrid.

Good luck with your quest to get more venomous, and be safe!
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Chance Duncan
www.rvexotics.com

I'm very good at handling hots. I took care of a 9ft king cobra for a few days and was handling him. But my other hots I've handled for years. I treat them with the upmost respect. I guess my question is this, Do you expert herps. know of any other hots that may be as easy and mild toxic as a copperhead but might be more beautiful. I'm guessing not but with all the crosses you guys have bred, mabey there is. Just checking. As far as a dusky goes, I remember my copperhead was much more at ease on a stick so I ruled him out. Just hoping for possible suggestions before the hamburg show. Thanks guys.

There are a few very colorful snakes that both fall under the categories of "for sure hots" and "not so for sure hots," all of which aren't exactly known for fatal venom makeups. If you're into elapids but the wife is dead set against the extremely dangerous varieties, the Aspidelaps 'cobras' (coral cobras and shield noses) from African come to mind. They stay small, are easy to manage, thrive in captivity, supposedly breed pretty readily, and are gorgeous, quirky snakes. I believe I've heard anecdotes of an infant or toddler being killed by one, but nothing definitive. I'll put it this way: I'd rather be nailed by one of my coral cobras than an adult copperhead.

Let's see...the night adders (Causus rhombeatus) aren't extremely colorful, but they are pretty neat. They're toad eaters in the wild and can sometimes be tricky to get onto rodents in captivity, but I do know a couple of well known keepers and dealers here who have been bringing them in from time to time of late.

Eyelash vipers (Bothriechis schlegelii) are gorgeous arboreal viperids that are not known to be deadly in general. They come in a wide array of colors and patterns, make amazing display animals, and thrive in captivity once they're feeding well on whole pinks (the babies are tiny!). The drawbacks: being arboreal vipers, they have amazingly long and deceptive strike ranges - meaning they can pretty much hang on with the tip of their tail and fling their body out in a strike. Babies eat pink tails - not really, but pink parts for sure. They tend to be a little more on the expensive side, but they're also always in demand. They don't need much space, even as fully grown adults.

As for the "not so for sure hots," there are a large number of rear fanged snakes available in the hobby. A few you may want to avoid if you're not wanting something extremely toxic - boomslangs (Dispholidus typus), twig snakes (Thelotornis sp.), and keel backs (Rhabdophis sp.) come to mind. There are loads of Central and South American and Asian species though that are both colorful and active. Rhino ratsnakes (Rhyncophis), and Baron's racers (Philodryas baroni) both come to mind. Vine snakes, both Asian (Ahaetulla) and Cen. American (Oxybelis) almost make good display specimens but can be difficult to get feeding. False water cobras (Hydrodynastes or whatever they are now) are a personal favorite - they get huge, have crazy feeding responses, and are diurnal cruisers. And of course there are tons of Boiga and other crazy rear fangs, most of which are more or less harmless to humans.

So, there are lots of animals from which you could potentially choose. Again, I'll recommend getting something that genuinely interests you.
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Chance Duncan
www.rvexotics.com

Thanks Chance, Lots of good info for me to consider. I'll be honest with you, I never heard of a coral cobra. I'm about to look it up. I really appreciate your reply. Thanks and be safe. Brian.

I'm a little concerned by this thread but will just hold back some of my strong opinions. Just realize that copperheads are not mildly toxic safe venomous snakes to keep and should never be considered as a good beginner hot. Some of the most grotesque and painful bites I have heard of, or seen, were inflicted by copperheads.

>>Thanks Chance, Lots of good info for me to consider. I'll be honest with you, I never heard of a coral cobra. I'm about to look it up. I really appreciate your reply. Thanks and be safe. Brian.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

I understand and appreciate your concern, but I'm in no way a beginner. I had my 1st copperhead when I was 16 and since then I had a black and white spitter, a temple viper, 2 dusky pygmys, 2 western diamond backs and a monicle cobra. I thought I made that clear in my 1st post. I have to go back and re-read it. I had these beautiful animals for years, even baby sat and handled a 9ft. king cobra. The reason I had to give up my animals was the birth of my children. I truly miss these amasing animals and I can understand and respect my wifes concerns about the super hots. A copperhead is a fair compromise. I don't know what strong oppinions you are holding back, but I assure you, I don't deserve them.

My comments were definitely not targeted at you but rather a general statement as I know a lot of folks lurk and read the posts on these forums. I was just trying to make it clear that copperheads, though not at the level of toxicity or lethalness as various species of Naja, Bitis, Dendroaspis, etc. are still deserving of a lot of respect. Many folks call copperheads a good first hot and that is simply not a good way to look at it....that was not directed at you in any way on this thread but I felt it necessary to make that clear to folks who may think that a copperhead is a non lethal venomous.

>>I understand and appreciate your concern, but I'm in no way a beginner. I had my 1st copperhead when I was 16 and since then I had a black and white spitter, a temple viper, 2 dusky pygmys, 2 western diamond backs and a monicle cobra. I thought I made that clear in my 1st post. I have to go back and re-read it. I had these beautiful animals for years, even baby sat and handled a 9ft. king cobra. The reason I had to give up my animals was the birth of my children. I truly miss these amasing animals and I can understand and respect my wifes concerns about the super hots. A copperhead is a fair compromise. I don't know what strong oppinions you are holding back, but I assure you, I don't deserve them.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

I would advise Naja pallida.

Red Spitter venom is both neurotoxic and cytotoxic. However, neurotoxic component is not very good at binding human neurons so it is not as toxic as many other Elapids. Cytotoxic component, on the other hand, will cause sever necrosis but can be dealt with antivenom.

Of course, as the name implies, they are spitters but they don't grow to be giant spitters and for most cases, they stop spitting in time.

In addition to all this, their color is one of a kind.

I am attaching a couple pictures of the ones I have.

Thanks,
Yasin

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We are the best GALATASARAY

Thanks for the reply Yasin 1. That sure is a beautiful animal you have there. Really make me miss Luther, My black and white. But my wife would be a wreck if I brought another cobra home. At least one that hooded.