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Stupid question - Maybe

dekaybrown May 14, 2008 04:23 PM

When I first got my BP, he was dehydrated and constipated.

A swim in our bath tub fixed that up.

How often is normal or is it normal to let them swim in the tub?

I mist the tank often, but he seems to enjoy the swim.

His water bowl is plenty big enough for him to curl up in, and he does from time to time.

I have seen mention about putting them in a warm bath, it does not seem to stress him any, and when he's had enough, he just crawls up the side and onto his towel.

The bathtub also triggers potty time, and that I like no mess in his cage... Gotta scoop the turds out before I drain, but no big deal.

Regards,
Wayne A Harvey
our critters
our critters

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1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garter - Princess
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snakes
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER"
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

Replies (10)

kingofspades May 14, 2008 06:05 PM

I can't see it hurting him...and if he "enjoys" it...why stop?
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

kadabraz May 14, 2008 06:10 PM

how do you know weither or not a bp "enjoys" something? mine enjoy eating pooping and mating i think.. could be wrong tho
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Jeff Stringer

OKReptileRescue May 14, 2008 09:47 PM

I have some snakes that "enjoy" the tub-- they cruise around in the water, go under the water, etc...

I have some that come barreling out of the tub faster than you can put them in it-- and I have one that starts biting if you put her in the bathtub full of water-- and I have only seen her in the water dish once-- just doesn't like water.

and for the OP-- If it ain't broke-- don't fix it. I have some snakes-- like our Emerald, that goes in the tub about once a month-- we have branches we got just for the tub-- for her-- they lay under the water but gives her something to hold on to-- besides me. she'll wrap around the branch and cruise with her upper body-- all around the branch.

Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

dekaybrown May 14, 2008 10:55 PM

My snake "Cane" makes obvious gestures whenever something stresses him.

I can only perceive that he enjoys it based on the fact that he swims around and makes no effort to leave the tub, to an extent.

If the surface of the tub is cold, he rapidly exits the tub.

If I fill up a few inches of hot water, and let it set for a while, the tub surface warms up as it absorbs the heat from the water.

When the water feels neutral on my wrist, or "baby bottle warm" I gently lower him into the water, and he seems very content to swim around in there for a while.

Generally if he poops in the water, he wants out very shortly after, but then again, so would I. (followed by a long hot soapy shower)(me)

another thing I have noticed, whenever I go to put him back in his enclosure, he locks around my wrist as if to say "I like it better out here" and man does this guy have a grip.

Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
-----

1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garter - Princess
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snakes
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER"
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

reticguy2 May 15, 2008 07:47 AM

Anything you observe in your ball python during the course of handling is nothing more than their reaction to stress. Handling equals stress. Period. Ball pythons that have been handled half to death have been known to lose all muscle tone. Why do you suppose that is? You might think a snake that handles like a wet noodle is really tame, right? You obviously love your snakes, and thats a good thing but they do not feel the same way about you. A ball python is happy when it has a meal in its stomach and is tucked away hidden from site. Not when its trying to survive a swim in the tub.

ginebig May 15, 2008 09:39 AM

Anything you observe in your ball python during the course of handling is nothing more than their reaction to stress.

I think there are alot of variables here. Whether he's been fed or is hungry, in shed or not, his age and even how long he's been in captivity. They do learn to accept certain actions from you over time.

Handling equals stress. Period.

Refer to my above statement

Ball pythons that have been handled half to death have been known to lose all muscle tone. Why do you suppose that is? You might think a snake that handles like a wet noodle is really tame, right?

I've actually seen this in other snakes. A snake that's been handled 'half to death' gets extremely overheated will lose muscle tone and WILL die if not allowed access to someplace much cooler than human hands soon.

You obviously love your snakes, and thats a good thing but they do not feel the same way about you. A ball python is happy when it has a meal in its stomach and is tucked away hidden from site. Not when its trying to survive a swim in the tub.

Certainly they don't feel the same way about us as some of us do them and I agree that they are happiest when fed and tucked away in a hidey hole, but this does not negate the fact that many will/do adjust to the handling they get on a regular basis. And as to your last statement, you can surely tell if a snake is struggling to escape the tub/stay afloat or just taking a liesurely slip around the perimeter.

Just my opinion from observations I've made over the years.

QWuig

dekaybrown May 15, 2008 12:11 PM

This particular snake has a sad history.

He was initially sold by a local pet store that I try to avoid, they never told the young lady how to properly care for him.

Now I am not going to give the original owner too much credit, as I tried to explain things to her more than once. She was too wrapped up in her own personal issues to have the time or resources to take care of him correctly.

The apartment he was in has forced air heat, and she used a screen cover over a large aquarium, never misted AND had a small filthy water bowl.

The snake had NO hide at all, was taken out and molested repeatedly every single day, one household member works second shift, the other sells drugs, so the lights in that living room were NEVER off.

His sheds always came off in chunks, he was constipated and not so healthy when she finally called me and asked me to come and pick him up.

Now this may be my first BP, but I have been keeping Colubrids for a long time. I could not just let this snake expire in hell, so I went and got him.

The first step in freeing up a constipated reptile is a warm soak. (They will not eat laxatives for me unless I gut loaded a mouse with ex lax just before feeding {humor ar ar})

That is when I noticed that he seemed to like cruising the tub, I have also learned that he is more comfortable if the water is only a few inches deep, so his belly can touch the bottom of the tub.

Due to the number of snakes we own, It would be impossible to try and handle all of them every day, so realistically the BP gets handled a couple times a week. In fact our daughter wants to maul him every day after school, and I always say NO.

Before I close this novel, I would like to point out that I do have one snake "Xena" a gorgeous copper phase Storeria dekayi
(dekay brown snake) that will "dance around" in front of her tank until I take her out. then she will crawl all over me, and on up into my hair. She will sit in my left hand and take food from my right hand.

as an experiment, I took her outside and tried to let her down on the ground, she grabbed onto my hand and would not let go until I brought her back into the house.

Xena has been with us 3 years, and I think I have her psychologically profiled quite well.

Our BP is very healthy now, he eats well, poops regularly and I am confident that the next shed will come off clean.

We have radiant heating (does not dry the air) and the second thing I did was cut holes in a medium size shipping box then placed it in his tank. (Guess where he spends 80-90 percent of every day)

I mist his cage every day with a spray bottle. (The basking lamp will drive the moisture away) his water bowl is HUGE so if he wants to he can crawl around in it, and occasionally he does.

Now I don't want to pat myself on the back too much, but taking on an unexpected pet, providing for it, feeding, electricity for the heaters, etc.. changing my life for the next 20+ years just so this critter can live a comfortable existence is a big move and not something everyone would do.

psychological health is just as if not more important than physical health, in fact the two go hand in hand. Stress is the number one cause of illness in the reptile world.

Kindest regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
Image
-----

1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garter - Princess
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snakes
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER"
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

joshhutto May 16, 2008 06:24 AM

wayne,

I commend you for your hard work rehabing this animal. It is not always easy to get a mistreated animal to adjust to a good living situation and can be harder at times to take the bashing one can get on a forum for a particular style of husbandry they prefer. What I will say is in between acceptance of your practice and avoidance. In my experience bp's generally don't "like" to swim but it I'm sure in the wild they have to occasionally. If you continue to allow her the tub time, I would just make sure the water was warm enough to heat up the tub itself before placing the snake in to minimize the stress the snake will encounter. Also ensure the snakes cage is nice and warm/dry so that after the swim the snake can resume it's "normal" activity (which with most bp's is no activity). One possible reason for the snake "holding" onto your wrist is that after being removed from the nice warm bath water, it is exposed to much cooler air temps. Coupled with the evaporation of the water, your wrist is a nice 98.6 degree basking site that it does not want to give up. We have a few animals that at times seem to love being handled but if you go in with cool hands and try to pick them up, they spaz out. I also agree with a former poster that stated all handling causes stress to some degree. Most of our snakes have learned to cope with the amount of handling they receive on a regular basis (cleaning, feeding, water changes, breeding) but there are a few that we have had for years that still want to eat your face every time I slide the tub out. Now are these snakes mean, absolultely not. They are just unable to adjust to a higher level of stress which can happen with every snake and us as responsible keepers must learn which animals will tolerate our NEED to place human desires and emotions on our cold blooded family members. You do sound like you want the best for your animals and they seem to adjust great to your routines. As long as they don't change, there should be no reason that you need to. Keep up the good work.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

dekaybrown May 15, 2008 12:19 PM

I appreciate your reply. and I can fully comprehend both sides of this discussion.

That's why I asked - so my snake can be as comfortable as I can make it.

Regards,
Wayne A. Harvey
-----

1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
1.2.9 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garter - Princess
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua"
0.1.10 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snakes
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
0.1.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER"
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
0.1.0. calico RAT
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

ginebig May 15, 2008 01:38 PM

No problem, and I like Dekays snakes too. I probably catch a couple every year but was always afraid to try and get them through a winter in captivity so they get released in the fall

Quig

P.S. If that ball was in hlf as bad a shape as you say he was, he looks to have made a 150% turn for the best. Congrats

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