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OT - incubation for Frank

flavor May 16, 2008 07:24 PM

Frank,

I went with maternal incubation. The female showed all the classic signs of being receptive, ovulating and going through a pre-lay shed. I placed a nest-box in her cage after the shed and she entered a few days later. She laid her eggs on the morning of March 26 and seemed to coil around them nicely. I have a nice incubator tha I built out of a cooler and I fired it up just in case. But, the momma was doing so well, I decided to let her go at it on her own. During incubation I kept the nest box completely dry. Humidity was kept up in the cage by placing damp hand towels under the heat panel. I replaced these as they dried out. i didn't spray the cage down during this time. The mom was so tightly coiled around the eggs, I had no idea how many there were. On day 49, she started to loosen her coils. I think she probably felt something happening inside of the eggs. On day 50, the babies started to hatch. i noticed the first one had made it out of the egg but then died just inside the nest box. I decided right there to pull the female off of the eggs and them finish in the incubator. Once I saw that there were two more eggs pipped, I went ahead and pipped the rest of them. I set them up in rubbermaid shoebox with damp papertowel for substrate. i place the pile of eggs on a deli cup lid inside the box and set it in the incubator. By the evening of Day 50, most heads were out. It's now day 52 and all of the babies are fully emerged and perching quietly.

During the incubation process I monitored the inside of the nest box and tried to keep an ambient temperature of 86°. I think the mother generated any additional heat by herself.

Here's a couple more pics


-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Replies (6)

run26neys May 16, 2008 09:53 PM

Wow - I like the babies and the difference in coloring among GTP's babies is incredible! I like the yellow ones, as the contrast is so nice.

Congrats again on a great clutch!
-----
Mike

7.13 BRB
1.2 Spotted Python
1.0 Cal. King

miloradovich May 16, 2008 10:05 PM

Congrats again, on those beautiful babies Mike. You've gotta be super exicted about all of them. Awsome looking litte guys!
Milo

FRoberts May 17, 2008 06:02 AM

Interestingly I have never incubated Python eggs and have breed a few species of python always opting for maternal incubation.

But the parameters for Reticulated and Burmese Python eggs is much different (wetter substrate) then for chondro eggs as you just clarified for me with your personaly experience.

I was curious because I have read that chondro eggs need to be kept humid and also a dry substrate. I thank you for the Intel and if I ever choose to try a hand at breeding these pythons I am going to use the technique you just wrote about. I believe with mom on board you are less likely to mess up the process that they obviously know more about then us. The end part with the incubator is something I will keep in mind as well and probably utilize as it seems a smart way to finish the process anyways as long as a suitable incubator is available.

Once again thanks and GREAT SNAKES AND MAJOR CONGRATS!!!!!

>>Frank,
>>
>>I went with maternal incubation. The female showed all the classic signs of being receptive, ovulating and going through a pre-lay shed. I placed a nest-box in her cage after the shed and she entered a few days later. She laid her eggs on the morning of March 26 and seemed to coil around them nicely. I have a nice incubator tha I built out of a cooler and I fired it up just in case. But, the momma was doing so well, I decided to let her go at it on her own. During incubation I kept the nest box completely dry. Humidity was kept up in the cage by placing damp hand towels under the heat panel. I replaced these as they dried out. i didn't spray the cage down during this time. The mom was so tightly coiled around the eggs, I had no idea how many there were. On day 49, she started to loosen her coils. I think she probably felt something happening inside of the eggs. On day 50, the babies started to hatch. i noticed the first one had made it out of the egg but then died just inside the nest box. I decided right there to pull the female off of the eggs and them finish in the incubator. Once I saw that there were two more eggs pipped, I went ahead and pipped the rest of them. I set them up in rubbermaid shoebox with damp papertowel for substrate. i place the pile of eggs on a deli cup lid inside the box and set it in the incubator. By the evening of Day 50, most heads were out. It's now day 52 and all of the babies are fully emerged and perching quietly.
>>
>>During the incubation process I monitored the inside of the nest box and tried to keep an ambient temperature of 86°. I think the mother generated any additional heat by herself.
>>
>>Here's a couple more pics
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Mike Lockwood
>>www.tooscaley.com

-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

Frank Roberts

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

FRoberts May 17, 2008 06:07 AM

THEY ARE OUTRAGEOUS LOOKING!!!!

love that last pick is that color Maroon (feel like a Moron) ?

(smiles)

Too Kewl from Too Scaley!!!

Please post some pick's post shed!!!

>>Interestingly I have never incubated Python eggs and have breed a few species of python always opting for maternal incubation.
>>
>>But the parameters for Reticulated and Burmese Python eggs is much different (wetter substrate) then for chondro eggs as you just clarified for me with your personaly experience.
>>
>>I was curious because I have read that chondro eggs need to be kept humid and also a dry substrate. I thank you for the Intel and if I ever choose to try a hand at breeding these pythons I am going to use the technique you just wrote about. I believe with mom on board you are less likely to mess up the process that they obviously know more about then us. The end part with the incubator is something I will keep in mind as well and probably utilize as it seems a smart way to finish the process anyways as long as a suitable incubator is available.
>>
>>Once again thanks and GREAT SNAKES AND MAJOR CONGRATS!!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Frank,
>>>>
>>>>I went with maternal incubation. The female showed all the classic signs of being receptive, ovulating and going through a pre-lay shed. I placed a nest-box in her cage after the shed and she entered a few days later. She laid her eggs on the morning of March 26 and seemed to coil around them nicely. I have a nice incubator tha I built out of a cooler and I fired it up just in case. But, the momma was doing so well, I decided to let her go at it on her own. During incubation I kept the nest box completely dry. Humidity was kept up in the cage by placing damp hand towels under the heat panel. I replaced these as they dried out. i didn't spray the cage down during this time. The mom was so tightly coiled around the eggs, I had no idea how many there were. On day 49, she started to loosen her coils. I think she probably felt something happening inside of the eggs. On day 50, the babies started to hatch. i noticed the first one had made it out of the egg but then died just inside the nest box. I decided right there to pull the female off of the eggs and them finish in the incubator. Once I saw that there were two more eggs pipped, I went ahead and pipped the rest of them. I set them up in rubbermaid shoebox with damp papertowel for substrate. i place the pile of eggs on a deli cup lid inside the box and set it in the incubator. By the evening of Day 50, most heads were out. It's now day 52 and all of the babies are fully emerged and perching quietly.
>>>>
>>>>During the incubation process I monitored the inside of the nest box and tried to keep an ambient temperature of 86°. I think the mother generated any additional heat by herself.
>>>>
>>>>Here's a couple more pics
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----
>>>>Mike Lockwood
>>>>www.tooscaley.com
>>
>>
>>-----
>>=========================================================
>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>=========================================================
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>
>>
>>
>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

Frank Roberts

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

flavor May 17, 2008 07:58 AM

I agree that "mother knows best". This is the main reason I went with maternal incubation. I really didn't trust myself as much as I trusted her. I should stress that it's critical to have an incubator standing by. In case you have to pull the female early on. I have heard of peole needing to switch to artificial incubation if mold develops on the clutch or if there are wet slugs that start to rot in the nest.

Also, I believe you are correct about the humidity. They do like the air to be wet but no water buildup in the nest box. I have a feeling that the female controls how much moisture is gained or lost from the clutch just as she controls the heat.

Maternal incubation was very cool to watch. If all goes smoothly with mating and ovulation and deposition, I think I will prefer to use it. Keeping the incubaor as a backup.
-----
Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

FRoberts May 17, 2008 08:25 AM

Also makes sense that a female chondro in the wild would pic a place free from the elements (hole in a tree for example)therefore the egg laying chamber is dry. The high ambient humidity in their ecosystem provides the resources for mom to either tighten up or loosen up to provide the proper humidity for her to successfully incubate her clutch of eggs, which basically is as inate/instinctual as eating,breathing, and the like.

Larger Python taxa may have a harder time "hiding" their entire clutch from the elements and therefore if they are slightly exposed to "elements" still hatch as nature intended.

Basically differences in the parameters are probably associated with the particular animals "life cycle" which will be suited for that particular species success at passing their genes onto the next genre.

As keepers recognize and duplicate this as closely as possible they will ( should / hopefully more accurate )yield rewarding results in our "life cycles" as well.

Which oddly enough involves duplicating theirs.

Interesting stuff!!!

Does it go higher ?

Be fruitful and Multiply (hehe)
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

Frank Roberts

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

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