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I believe that this is a rat snake I found today, I just want to know how to distinguish this from a Black Racer. It was over 8ft long and stayed still for several minutes while I snapped some pics and gradually rippled it's body (I think the flash scared it), it only left when I touched it's tail.

That is a black rat. I am sure others will give you a way to tell the different between a black rat and a racer.

Miller

>>I believe that this is a rat snake I found today, I just want to know how to distinguish this from a Black Racer. It was over 8ft long and stayed still for several minutes while I snapped some pics and gradually rippled it's body (I think the flash scared it), it only left when I touched it's tail.
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1.1 Florida King
1.1 Eastern Kings
1.1 Black Milksnake
0.1 Honduran
1.1 Kankakee Bull Snakes
2.2 N. Pinesnake
0.0.1 Black Ratsnake
1.0 Chow Chow (2003 Papi)
0.1 Cats (Shug)

Yours is definitely a black rat snake and a nice one at that. It's not that difficult to tell the difference between a black rat and a black racer, but it gets much easier with experience.

Here's how I tell (for adults):

Black rat snake: heavier bodied black snake often with some evidence of a pattern on its back. Black rats usually have a white-ish lower jaw with some white on upper jaw around the mouth. The belly is not plain; most of the snakes I've seen have some sort of alternating black/white pattern (i.e. checkerboard, etc.).

Black racer: slender solid black snake with a solid gray, white, or blackish underbelly. These snakes often have the tip of their snouts colored a light pink and have a light-colored lower jaw. Most of them are pretty nasty if cornered.

Black rat snake: http://www.uga.edu/srelherp/jd/jdweb/Herps/species/USsnakes/elaobsobs15.jpg

Black racer: http://www.agfc.com/!userfiles/int_images/snakes/black_racer_big.jpg

Congrats on your nice find!

Your snake wasnt 8ft long. Your excitement got the best of you at the time. It's ok, it happens to all of us. I can tell by the size of the eyes relative to the rest of the head that snake was probably in the 3-4 ft range.
Judging ratsnakes from racers does take a little bit of experience, but once you get the hang of it, it's pretty simple. For me, one of the easier ways to tell the difference is that the scales over the racers eye give them an angry look, the eye doesnt appear be quite so round in shape. I've noticed racers can tend to be a satin black color, sometimes greyish. The belly color can be a silvery sort of blue-ish white.

Black Racer

The ratsnake tends to be a little more flat around the eye and has a more pleasant look to it. The whole eye looks quite round because of the scales around the eye (peri-ocular scales)
The snake is typicallly a glossy black also. The belly color is typically a strong white color.
Black Ratsnake

One last tid bit.....if it's 104 degrees outside, and you see a black snake meandering across some pavement, you can bet your life it's a racer LOL.
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Tom

"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

While I admit I was very excited to find this snake, after he moved away I measured where he was. My finger tip to finger tip is 75", and he was 29" beyond that. That puts him easily at 8'6".
I wanted to thank you for your info, I know nothing about racers or Rat snakes, I deal mainly with Cottonmouth, copperhead, and common water snakes. This snake though I hope to see again, he was fasinating as he was approachable (I took 12 pics and watched him for a minute or two afterward)and had the rippled appearance.

By the way I posted I cottonmouth Pic that I removed from a residential garage locally.

Wow!,...it didn't look nearly that big to me either. But if it really was, that would make it AT, or longer than the documented record length, which is 101 inches(8'5", so you can see why we might think it could be somewhat exaggerated.

In ANY case, it was a beautiful one, nice shiny black, clean white throat, without a trace of any pattern remnants, at least from the portion I could see in the photo's. I used to have a sweet looking pair just like it.

Cool looking "contortrix" as well!

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

> Cool looking "contortrix" as well!

Take a closer look... appears to be piscivorus to me? *shrug*

dg

You're right,..it's a Cottonmouth,....it was very late last night when I glanced at it before commenting on the Ratsnake. Thanks for pointing that out, Dwight.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

That part about your snake staying still for a few minutes is another indicator that it was a rat snake. They often freeze up when found (unfortunately a bad move on roads), while very few racers will sit still for a photo session.

Billy

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Phillyherping

>>I believe that this is a rat snake I found today, I just want to know how to distinguish this from a Black Racer. It was over 8ft long and stayed still for several minutes while I snapped some pics and gradually rippled it's body (I think the flash scared it), it only left when I touched it's tail.
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as you have learned it was a nice black rat specimen...Just think of black rats as pretty cool snakes and black racers as....spawn from hell....lol
They just have nasty attitudes.
If a racer would have stayed in the vacinity long enough for you to get pics it probably would have been standing it's ground while striking three or four times a second. Or is that three or four hundred times a second?
I just don't like those physco &#*$&@$s.....LOL
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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James, please.
You're scaring the children with your anthropomorphism.
No snakes are actually hellspawn, but when cornered and frightened almost out of their wits by a relatively gargantuan human, some snakes will use their defensive tactics more than others will.
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Capitol Breeders is:
http://www.freewebs.com/capitolbreeders/index.htm

>>James, please.
>>You're scaring the children with your anthropomorphism.
>>No snakes are actually hellspawn, but when cornered and frightened almost out of their wits by a relatively gargantuan human, some snakes will use their defensive tactics more than others will.
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LOL
I stand by my words...
evil snakes...
the children should be scared...
run children run....it's an evil black racer...LOL
sorry, I just don't like black racers no matter how beautiful they can be..
A racer I photographed on a nearby street. He wasn't really too evil...lol

and to keep it on topic a black rat

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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