Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've tried emailing you several times but I keep getting a delivery failure notice. So I thought I'd post some pics for you on here. I do plan on holding on to all of my Jungle males and seeing if I can either find a female Jungle or if one of these males breaks the rules and turns out to be genetic.
So here are the pics of the males that I have to work with.

CH '08 babies

CH '06 from Petco

Ch '05 from Camlon Reptiles

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Phil Red Hernandez-

Maybe its just because I always have a hard time with the less blatant ball python morphs..but why are these Jungles? They all look normal to me...nice looking normal but no different than the normals I have seen in the past. The first two definitely look normal..the last couple, maybe how I think jungles look like..with crazy patterns..but aren't jungles suppose to have golden or different colored eyes than normals do? The eyes I can see look pretty much normal to me in those pics.

Not that I am picking on what you have there..or trying to say they are normals when they are not..just trying to clarify in my head what makes a jungle a jungle and what is just a normal. Some times..just seeing the jungle with a normal in the same picture..is all that is needed to catch the subtle differences not noticeable otherwise.
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PHLdyPayne

Here's what I've learned about Classic Jungles over the years.
It is an unproven colour and pattern trait. There have been reports of some passing on part of the Jungle trait such as colour or pattern. But it has yet to be proven fully genetic. Some have come up with CB hatchlings but that was due to stress to the egg during incubation. I have looked through my many pics and picked out the best ones to show the traits of a Classic Jungle ball python. Have a look and if you still see my snakes as being normal then know that technically they are until proven otherwise.

A main thing to look for when spotting out a Jungle would be it's colour.

Majority of them are brightly coloured as hatchlings and can sometimes maintain their colour. Some have been known to brown out as adults just like Pastels.

Then their pattern is another thing to look for.

They all have an abberant pattern to them. Some May even have some reduced pattern but most of them have very nice abberant patterns. Along with the abberant pattern comes certain markings (circled in white) along their pattern much like many of the co-dom morphs such as Het Red Axanthics, Cinnamon Pastels, etc.

Then there are some with a very dominant marking on their heads (circled in red in the above and below pics) which is another sign of a Classic Jungle.

Then of course there is the yellow or green colour in the upper half of their eyes. Some may have more colour to their eyes than others. Then last but not least is the black lining on their upper labial scales.

Now not all Jungle ball pythons will carry all of these traits but the ones that do are the best example of this great looking snake. If you'd like to see more great pics of these unproven yet amazing animals, then feel free to take a look at the following links.

Snake Keeper
Graziani Reptiles
NERD

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Phil Red Hernandez-

Thanks the extra pics and explanation does help...though not all the pics in your initial post or the others don't show snakes with that distinct spot on the head...that sort of ..spiderish marking on the head...

brightly colored when young often browning out as they mature, sort of described all my ball pythons..not that I have tons...

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PHLdyPayne

It's not often that they'll brown out as adults. Most of them do keep their colour and some get even brighter. Now if you have a copy of the older ball python manual made by David and Tracy Barker, you will find in there some pics of what they have considered to be Jungles. One has a nice light gold colour to it's pattern along with the head marking but no labial markings (mustache). Then the other has really nice yellow orange colour to it but has no head marking other than really nice blushing and s full mustache.
To some, the snake has to have all the traits in order for them to consider it a Classic Jungle. But then that also comes along with the fact that none have been proven to be genetic so their is little to no mention of them in the forums.
But I myself will work with the snakes I have and see if the do in fact turn out to be genetic or just really nice looking normals. I will continue to post pictures as they continue to grow so that you and everyone can see how they turn out as adults. But that also means that I'll have to get a better camera.
Now you have some nice looking snakes there and good luck with them when it comes time to breed them.
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Phil Red Hernandez-

The CH from Petco really looks like the only Classic Jungle. The others look normal, even the one from Camlon.

Here's a Classic Jungle Het Pied male:

A CJ 06 female I used to have(passed away):

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-Becky Brown, RVT-
1.0 Lemon Pastel Classic Jungle,1.0 Black Pastel,1.0 Enchi,1.0 Yellow Hypo,0.1 100% het Butterscotch Hypo,0.1 66% Poss Het VPI Hypo,3.24 Normals,1.1 Spider,1.1 Yellowbellies(BHB),1.0 100% Het Pied Classic Jungle,1.3 66% Poss Het VPI Axanthic, 1.1 Poss Het VPI Snow,1.1 100% het Genetic Stripe

I'm going to see what I can do about borrowing a better camera. The one i have here is a Cyber-Shot DSC-S650 and all the pictures I take indoors or outdoors look horrible. The Jungle I got from Camlon Reptiles is actually much brighter than the one I got from Petco. But then the Jungle I got from Petco does have more of the characteristics then the rest. I know many will see them all as more normals than anything else. To me it's a project I've been interested in for some time and now have several males to work with while still working with my other morphs. So I'll see how things turn out with all these boys.
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Phil Red Hernandez-

This is a 06' jungle I hatched out, wish I could plan on her to be genetic! great color and a sweet head mark, 1st pic out o' the egg, 2nd pic from last year. We'll see this next season what her babies look like...

Link

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Mike Jenks-Solar Serpents llc

Very nice looking snake you have there. You said that she hatched out there with you. So my question now is what did the parents look like? But good luck with her and keep us posted on what kind of babies she produces.
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Phil Red Hernandez-

This is her with one of the sibs in the clutch about a month old in 06', I was pretty excited when I saw her pop out. The clutch came from mormal to normal breeding from a pair of balls that was droppped off to me that the person could no longer care for.

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Mike Jenks-Solar Serpents llc

Well that is one very nice looking snake there. Have you bred the parents back together to see if they produce any more just like her?
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Phil Red Hernandez-