Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was just looking at a really outstanding male Yellow Belly on the classifieds for only $250. It hit me that I can vivdly remember sitting in my old office at the job I was at in 2005, looking at the classifieds, and seeing YBs for $10,000 each. Wow! Not complaining, not trying to start the old "market" babble. Just an observation of how interesting it is when you look at how prices were just 3 years ago compared to now.

my first NARBC Chicago was in 2005! I saw and a female hatchling Ivory for 100K!! now you can get a Pastel ivory for $4,000. Just look at pins, spiders, and lessers... I sold a hatchling male spider for $2800 a few years back, im sure you have seen those prices.. Theres a KingPin for under 5K! neither of those morphs were less than $6k ALONE three years ago!

The prices have changed a lot in the past years. But as many have said before, it's supply and demand. The more a certain morph is produced, the demand and price will go down because a lot of people will be breeding them. Yet many who weren't able to afford these morphs a few years ago are now able to afford them whether they just want a very unique looking pet or to start their own breeding projects.
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Phil Red Hernandez-

maybe white snakes ain't so easy to make...all those balls that make them dropped in price cause you don't get them as easily as anticipated.

Mojave included...

when u bred two of these white snakes together do you get all white snakes...probably not...spells price drop on this particular morph...unless I am wrong and you get all white snakes when bred together...even a Mojave to a white one doesn't produce the results a breeder would hope for...so it ain't old market..it's a gene that isn't as figurable as hoped. IMOA

>>I was just looking at a really outstanding male Yellow Belly on the classifieds for only $250. It hit me that I can vivdly remember sitting in my old office at the job I was at in 2005, looking at the classifieds, and seeing YBs for $10,000 each. Wow! Not complaining, not trying to start the old "market" babble. Just an observation of how interesting it is when you look at how prices were just 3 years ago compared to now.
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Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
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Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

White snake x white snake (unless it's super mojave x ivory) will produce all white snakes. I just don't think anyone has done it because...well...why?
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

>>White snake x white snake (unless it's super mojave x ivory) will produce all white snakes. I just don't think anyone has done it because...well...why?
>>-----
>>"What is man without the beasts?
>>If all the beasts were gone,
>>men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
>>For what happens to the beasts,
>>soon happens to men.
>>All things are connected."
>>
>>-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)
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Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

I thought someone tried and didn't get all white snakes and er um forgot to post it. LOL (cause that would make sense in a corrupt kind of way)

If someone did it and got all white snakes I missed that one.

Every person I asked that has a pair of these snakes, ignores me when I ask about the outcome. If it's incomplete dominance or like such a transference, you would not get all white snakes from the breeding. You may get white snakes and any other combo needed to make them though.

Someone has HAD to have tried by now and if they where successful I would assume that would be good Intel to post, it certainly would keep a higher interest in the morph including some value, all those snakes where cheaper till the white snakes showed up and whoa!!! Now ????

>>>>White snake x white snake (unless it's super mojave x ivory) will produce all white snakes. I just don't think anyone has done it because...well...why?
>>>>-----
>>>>"What is man without the beasts?
>>>>If all the beasts were gone,
>>>>men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
>>>>For what happens to the beasts,
>>>>soon happens to men.
>>>>All things are connected."
>>>>
>>>>-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)
>>-----
>>=========================================================
>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>=========================================================
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>
>>
>>
>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
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=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Oh. Maybe I'm wrong then. I'm no expert.

Heck...I'm just hoping I get a few female pastels this year. haha.
-----
"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

I am not sure to be honest, no one ever answers the darn question LOL

>>Oh. Maybe I'm wrong then. I'm no expert.
>>
>>Heck...I'm just hoping I get a few female pastels this year. haha.
>>-----
>>"What is man without the beasts?
>>If all the beasts were gone,
>>men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
>>For what happens to the beasts,
>>soon happens to men.
>>All things are connected."
>>
>>-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

are you sure of this? have you seen this take place?

Pitoon

>>are you sure of this? have you seen this take place?
>>
>>Pitoon

Has to be...

Since any offspring from a pairing of super lessers,would be super lessers...and any from super mojave x super mojave would be super mojaves as well.

Of course with lesser/mojave x lesser/mojave(both lucys)there could be any combination possible from them..So the offspring would be either super lesser,super mojave,or lesser/mojave lucy.
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Charles Glaspie

My own opinion is that price has dropped because of supply and demand. Randy Remington thinks there are five or six mutants that can be combined to make a white snake. See the link below. And more snakes with the building blocks are being produced each year.

Here's a question I'd like to know the answer to. When were white snakes first produced? I only heard about them two or three years ago, as far as I can remember. Seems to me that if the first ones were in the 2005 crop, then they'd be entering the breeding cages for the first time last fall. So it may be a little too early to get answers.

If lesser platinum, mojave, phantom, butter, Vin Russo, and mocha are different mutant versions of the same normal gene, then there are many ways to make a white snake. Just write the list in two vertical columns (one for each member of the gene pair) and start making gene pairs. I figure there are 36 combinations, though we might want to delete some. From what I've read, a snake with two mojave mutant genes isn't white enough for me. YMMV.

Once we have the mutant gene pairs, we can make them do the Punnett square dance.

A white snake with a pair of lesser platinum mutant genes mated to another white snake with a pair of lesser platinum mutant genes. Result: All the babies would have a pair of lesser platinum mutant genes and be white.

A white snake with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene is mated to another white snake with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene. Result:
1/4 with a pair of lesser platinum mutant genes = white
2/4 with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene = white
1/4 with a pair of mojave mutant genes = nearly white.

And so on.

As to the question of the result from a white snake mated to a mojave, the answer would vary depending on the genetic make up of the white snake. But here is one possible answer.

A white snake with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene is mated to a mojave (with a mojave mutant gene paired with a normal gene). Result:
1/4 with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene = white
1/4 with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a normal gene = lesser platinum
1/4 with a pair of mojave mutant genes = nearly white.
1/4 with a mojave mutant gene paired with a normal gene = mojave

Of course, the observed results from all of these matings may not match the expected results just from the luck of the draw, not to mention unexpected environmental and genetic influences.

Paul Hollander

How to make Blue eyed lucy

So there is much to figure out with all these genes and who knows what genes may be masked in the genotypes of all these line bred snakes as well, like corn snake soup soon I guess.

I recently saw "white" retics and do no think a simple recessive gene is at work, it's a another multiple combo going on.

Gregor Mendel would be wetting in his pants if he where alive LOL!!!

Thanks again Paul.

>>My own opinion is that price has dropped because of supply and demand. Randy Remington thinks there are five or six mutants that can be combined to make a white snake. See the link below. And more snakes with the building blocks are being produced each year.
>>
>>Here's a question I'd like to know the answer to. When were white snakes first produced? I only heard about them two or three years ago, as far as I can remember. Seems to me that if the first ones were in the 2005 crop, then they'd be entering the breeding cages for the first time last fall. So it may be a little too early to get answers.
>>
>>If lesser platinum, mojave, phantom, butter, Vin Russo, and mocha are different mutant versions of the same normal gene, then there are many ways to make a white snake. Just write the list in two vertical columns (one for each member of the gene pair) and start making gene pairs. I figure there are 36 combinations, though we might want to delete some. From what I've read, a snake with two mojave mutant genes isn't white enough for me. YMMV.
>>
>>Once we have the mutant gene pairs, we can make them do the Punnett square dance.
>>
>>A white snake with a pair of lesser platinum mutant genes mated to another white snake with a pair of lesser platinum mutant genes. Result: All the babies would have a pair of lesser platinum mutant genes and be white.
>>
>>A white snake with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene is mated to another white snake with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene. Result:
>>1/4 with a pair of lesser platinum mutant genes = white
>>2/4 with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene = white
>>1/4 with a pair of mojave mutant genes = nearly white.
>>
>>And so on.
>>
>>As to the question of the result from a white snake mated to a mojave, the answer would vary depending on the genetic make up of the white snake. But here is one possible answer.
>>
>>A white snake with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene is mated to a mojave (with a mojave mutant gene paired with a normal gene). Result:
>>1/4 with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene = white
>>1/4 with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a normal gene = lesser platinum
>>1/4 with a pair of mojave mutant genes = nearly white.
>>1/4 with a mojave mutant gene paired with a normal gene = mojave
>>
>>Of course, the observed results from all of these matings may not match the expected results just from the luck of the draw, not to mention unexpected environmental and genetic influences.
>>
>>Paul Hollander
>>
>>
>>How to make Blue eyed lucy
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=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

>>So there is much to figure out with all these genes and who knows what genes may be masked in the genotypes of all these line bred snakes as well, like corn snake soup soon I guess.
>>
>>I recently saw "white" retics and do no think a simple recessive gene is at work, it's a another multiple combo going on.
>>
>>Gregor Mendel would be wetting in his pants if he where alive LOL!!!
>>
>>Thanks again Paul.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>My own opinion is that price has dropped because of supply and demand. Randy Remington thinks there are five or six mutants that can be combined to make a white snake. See the link below. And more snakes with the building blocks are being produced each year.
>>>>
>>>>Here's a question I'd like to know the answer to. When were white snakes first produced? I only heard about them two or three years ago, as far as I can remember. Seems to me that if the first ones were in the 2005 crop, then they'd be entering the breeding cages for the first time last fall. So it may be a little too early to get answers.
>>>>
>>>>If lesser platinum, mojave, phantom, butter, Vin Russo, and mocha are different mutant versions of the same normal gene, then there are many ways to make a white snake. Just write the list in two vertical columns (one for each member of the gene pair) and start making gene pairs. I figure there are 36 combinations, though we might want to delete some. From what I've read, a snake with two mojave mutant genes isn't white enough for me. YMMV.
>>>>
>>>>Once we have the mutant gene pairs, we can make them do the Punnett square dance.
>>>>
>>>>A white snake with a pair of lesser platinum mutant genes mated to another white snake with a pair of lesser platinum mutant genes. Result: All the babies would have a pair of lesser platinum mutant genes and be white.
>>>>
>>>>A white snake with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene is mated to another white snake with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene. Result:
>>>>1/4 with a pair of lesser platinum mutant genes = white
>>>>2/4 with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene = white
>>>>1/4 with a pair of mojave mutant genes = nearly white.
>>>>
>>>>And so on.
>>>>
>>>>As to the question of the result from a white snake mated to a mojave, the answer would vary depending on the genetic make up of the white snake. But here is one possible answer.
>>>>
>>>>A white snake with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene is mated to a mojave (with a mojave mutant gene paired with a normal gene). Result:
>>>>1/4 with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a mojave mutant gene = white
>>>>1/4 with a lesser platinum mutant gene paired with a normal gene = lesser platinum
>>>>1/4 with a pair of mojave mutant genes = nearly white.
>>>>1/4 with a mojave mutant gene paired with a normal gene = mojave
>>>>
>>>>Of course, the observed results from all of these matings may not match the expected results just from the luck of the draw, not to mention unexpected environmental and genetic influences.
>>>>
>>>>Paul Hollander
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>How to make Blue eyed lucy
>>-----
>>=========================================================
>> Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
>>=========================================================
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>
>>
>>
>>I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.