Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Has anyone bred a Mole King, to a Prairie King?
Is this a viable cross? (Meaning, will they breed readily, and without problems?) I have heard that there are certain problems, with breeding Prairie Kings. Such as Fertility, Mortality, and Spinal kinks.
Would a breeding of this type be considered a Hybrid, Intergrade, or ???

I'm sure it has been done in the hobby before (and I think Bluerosy referred to it once on this forum) and it happens along thier intergrade zones in nature.
Most of us who breed various mole kings try to keep the "localities" (with me it may be as large as a State,haha)somewhat pure, and the 3 subspecies are not crossed.
The prairies have a larger natural range, have been bred for a long time in the hobby, and it's harder to find "locale specific" ones.
Although an "albino mole king" might be pretty I won't cross the ssp. lines myself just to try and "make" one by using the albino gene from the prairies.

In the end, I don't want to see them crossed in the hobby..especially into the little known and much rarer south FL mole king. It was only just described in the late '80's.
My opinions only here.You can do what you want obviously. I'll keep mine seperate.

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I always like pictures of mole kings. Now would be a great time for someone to post some, wouldn't it??
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1.1 Florida Kingsnake
1.0 Kisatchie Cornsnake

Just got my camera back from the Dr. so I needed to snap a pic or four...
Let's start with a state locale you don't see too often.
This Alabama mole is just going into a shed cycle but he's not that colorful of a snake anyway

you head east a bit to get ones like this cb GA male

then south to north Florida panhandle area for a color a change like in this cb juvenile

and way farther south to get the "other" FL king, the south FL mole king.
Here's a juvenile.

I have more but you can get the idea of some of the variation on a theme.
:Mark

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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Mark... that Panhandle animal is insane... whoa. Caught me off guard w/ that screamer... good luck.

Chris

And great outdoor shots too. Very nice, thanks for posting those!
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1.1 Florida Kingsnake
1.0 Kisatchie Cornsnake

It's been done actually.... the 'cherry prairies' I believe. Not that they don't look amazing but they are integrades and for many generally useless. Periodically one can find access to WC prairies -- so if you want to alleviate some of the tendencies for kinking, etc. you described you could simply just outcross them... it'd be nice to see that done.

Chris

>>>.."Collins, Joseph T. (1991 Viewpoint: A new taxonomic arrangement for some North American amphibians and reptiles. Herpetological Review. 22(2): pp. 42-43), using the Evolutionary Species Concept, considered this previously defined and diagnosed allopatric taxon a distinct species, a more conservative arrangement than recognizing it as a race of Lampropeltis calligaster with which it does not intergrade nor exchange genes".

The mere thought of someone even having the thought to intergrade/cross, or maybe more accurately stated..hybridize(as the above notes would suggest) the occipitolineata with a rhombo, or calligaster is just really depressing. To think that these little snakes are so unquely separated from the others and actually DONT seem to intergrade at all is certainly a special thing. Not to mention that this very secretive race has only been described to science since 1987.

In my opinion, the only "outcome" that would result from a SFMK crossing,...would be to willingly begin their demise in the hobby.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Doug... I sincerely doubt anyone would bother trying to mix in SFMK's -- for what it's worth. Thankfully actually... for once them being 'ugly' might have an advantage! As for rhombos and calligaster... it's just a shame. I'm sure you know it'll happen again, and again, etc. It's almost too tempting seeing how red some NC animals can get... I'm surprised I haven't seen more around yet!

Later...

p.s. never did comment about your pics on the milk forum... congrats on that killer extreme breeding.

Yeah, Chris,....I suppose the best thing "safe-guarding" the occipitolineata is as you mentioned, their not being particularly vivid in color and pattern, which is the VERY reason they haven't been more popular in the hobby to date. I suppose that could be looked at as a very GOOD thing!

Otherwise, we would probably have seen "Moledurans" in the hobby already!..LOL!!

later!, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Thanks Chris!,.......I didn't notice your extra compliment at the bottom until now. Thanks!,.....yeah, I'm glad to see that the youngster has a good "get'er done" attitude!

Thanks again buddy!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

moledurans kind of has a catchy name. i might have to try that one lol not!
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i'm not over weight i'm under tall

Charlie!,.....

Even before I clicked on your post, I had a feeling it would be a funny reply to the name "Moleduran"!.hahaha! , but one can never underestimate what OTHERS are capable of doing!..LOL!

later!, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

You know man it does have a nice ring to it... funny thing is that it'd likely be the molie trying to eat the hondo when paired together. Gotta admit those would be cool pics... lol.

Chris

Chris,...

Yeah, the name "Moleduran" does seem to have a funny descriptive ring to it!..LOL!! which is why I used it, but I certainly wouldn't want it to become a reality!

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"