Reptile & Amphibian Forums

could my male be really dehydrated? is that why he was acting so lethargic. hes acting that way right now while drinking. however hes alert, cuz his eyes are nice and open. seems like hes really enjoying drinking that water. he pooped on the rock(not taking this sample in) so idk could he have been dehydrated. he has been drinking non stop for like a half hour. he took a break but then went right back to it. could that explain his skinny tail, and his lose skin? will he fill out with hydration?
ill start a temp gun post too. might as well

he did something really wierd just now when i went to pick him up. he starting to spit up a jelly kind a water. was he expelling his stomach contents. then he tried to hiss at me( that what i think he was doing). i was cleaning his face, and he gave me a garglely vocalization. im guessing he just had a lot of water in his throat, but why did he throw up water, after spending an hour drinking. i noticed it was coming out his nose too. i dont think its mucus it looked like water. plus he had his whole face in the water dish so that might explain it.

Have you adjusted the temps in his tank? Is the cool end staying in the low 80s?

Try not to handle him too much right now. He could have an impaction if he got too dehydrated and that will make him throw up. Has he passed a stool yet?

yeah he did? he pooped. idk about temps? its hovering around 85,but i dont know if i can get the basking temp up.i elevated the basking sight as close to the heat lamp as possible. hes very alert right now. havent seen him eat tho. i saw him ruping his face against the rock, could that be mites?

Did you lay the probe right on the basking spot and check it? Hon, this is a serious issue. You MUST give him a cool end and a proper basking spot or he won't get healthy.

What sized tank is he in?

A temp gun is definitely a better idea than another lizard right now. Your future pets will benefit from it.

He might be rubbing any residual water or debri off of his face from the urping event. Just leave him be for now. The vet said there woere no mites, right?

yes i did im getting a reading of about 99 degrees.that seems really low. he has 100 watt bulb, so i should be getting some good output. the tank is a 30 gallon long, good for a single lizard i would think. he looks really good really colorful, and i think his tail is filling out. it looks rounder than it did before. has to be a good sign. and the vet said no mites, but i noticed that, just wanted to report that. im going to order a temp gun. right now hes really interested in getting out of the tank. showing lots of activity. he looks great very colorful. wish he would eat tho.

I have noticed that Talulah, who is also probably wild caught, does not like to eat if I am watching. She is very shy, but as long as I don't make eye contact with her, I can work in and around her cage, and she is fine. She will run along the front when she is hungry, and that is a sign that I need to drop food in, but that is a relationship that took awhile.

GET THE TEMP GUN, and try giving him some space. Then, get a fecal to your vet as soon as you can.

Collareds, Please please (out of concern for this wild caught lizard that is likely very uncomfortable) consider this...if he is dehydrated and keeps getting dehydrated he will die for sure no matter how much water he drinks. He is drinking...that is a good sign...HE WANTS TO LIVE. You say he's brightened up as you moved the light close....tells you he likes that. Collaerds like warmth...but here is the catch 22...the extra heat does a service which is keeps his motors running BUT IF THAT EXTRA HEAT IS PROVIDED AND SO IS TOO MUCH AIR EXCHANGE HE HAS A PROBLEM. By too much air exchage he will continually degrade...I went into detail about this a feww post down. What is the cause of this dehydration 99% of the time??? Screen tops. Its a fact sort of like gravity...Lastly, let me say I have no motivation than to help a lizard. At least please consider. Not high humidity just NOT TOO MUCH AIR EXCHANGE. best of luck

If you are refering to me, NONE of my lizards are dehydrated and I have ALL open enclosures except where I have jumpers, like the collareds and spinys. On those cages, I use screen tops, and won't be changing, thank you.

I also make sure that all of my vivs have an appropriate basking spot or two and a cool side. I mist my lizards regularly and provide them UVB and an appropriate healthy diet.

All new lizards go to the vet or I at least get a fecal done.

These things are working for me and for all of the people whose animals I have seen and who I respect as keepers and breeders.

well i don think my temps are hot enough, and thats a problem atleast in the temperary enclosure. the basking bulb does not point down it goes parrallel to the uvb bulb, i think the heat is being dstributed away from the basking sight. thats how the fixture came.i think thats my problem.

Do you see a bit of merit in the screen top issue? Its very simple and something I see time and time again. If someone has success with them there may be other variables (ie whole room is more humid than yours possibly. I know you have taken some direction from FR(or at least I am sure now you are aware his contributions/achievements)...please hit the topic up or archive what successful people say about screen tops in most cases. Again there may be a few that have some variable that allows it. But again the success of so many like pro extics,fr,the big time Beardy persons,and so forth know its vey very difficult to maintain hydration with screen tops.

Can you describe your enclosure? Does it have a screen top and some sort of astro turf stuff for flooring? Wishing your buddy the best.cheers

i took a pic of it. this is the temperary enclosure for my male, he will be moved into my bigger enclosure as soon as i know hes bug free.

ridiculous!!!!!!

be more spacific???

There is nothing wrong with screen tops! The air flow is just like it would be with out a screen top. I've bred vestigium, Dickersonae, Bicentores, and I keep chuckwallas. The theory that screen tops affect anything with reptile husbandry is ridiculous.

different meanings. If you do not see where open or screen tops can cause problems then you lack expirience in herpetoculture. You may have conditions that apply in your herp room or some condition which allows. How many generations have you bred of each species? Lastly, I do go to the field quite often. When I see the info or worse yet the setups people keep them in I am not suprised to see why herpetoculture in genneral is in bad shape...true success is very rare.

about screen tops from pro exotics(success)...

I have always used them, with exception to a couple scalys that free roamed.

** NEVER had any dehydration problems from having screen tops.

I too have raised C. vestigium, C. bicinctores, C. collaris C. nebrius And chuckwallas, agamas, uros, geckos, spinys, frogs.. so on...
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Eve
Suncharmers

we will have to agree that "success" with herps has different meanings to different people with different levels of expirience. To some herpers its to keep an animal alive.
To others its to allow them to achieve as many things as possible...to grow up,find a mate/niche within social structure,produce many generations of off spring and those offspring produce, hopefully have a "full" life. Can anyone here say that is their norm?? Anybody out there on their 10'th generation of Desert Igs??? Anybody here have chucks producing multiple clutches??Anybody here breeding multiple species(collaerds) consistently? I mean as in one female laying viable eggs over and over again in a season. Of all the desert igs that will get collected this year how many will live more than one year in captivity?? Bank less than 1 percent. I fear for collaerds its the same.
I guess we have to agree "success" is in the eye of the beholder. Cheers

Thank you, Knowing you have not had any reptiles die in the past 10 years(generation after generation) because of your unlimited knowledge.. from not using screen tops, And Have FINALLY found the magic bullet to eternal life for lizards, has made me one happy herp keeper.

Finally Success, Now we can all breath a sigh of relief , no more sickness or death, only thriving collareds now that you have brought us the GOOD NEWS !
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Eve
Suncharmers

THERE IS NO AIR EXCHANGE IN THE WILD WHEN THEY ARE BASKING IN 140 DEGREE WEATHER? HOW MUCH FIELD WORK HAVE YOU DONE WITH CROTAPHYTUS?????

i agree it doesnt make much sense to be honest. in the custom enclosures that ive seen they dont seem to have as much ventilation, as opposed to a screen topped tank, yet it seems like the lizards do fine. i think in both these cases one thing was constant a relative low humidity. however i could be wrong about custom enclosures (european style), do they have more ventalation than i realize? so i guess all in all this argument is a little dead. my new male now has had water everyday since i realized that he may be a little dehydrated, and he looks great!! his tail filled out and everything!! great looking lizard, i picked a beaut....

Yes, custom enclosures do have ventillation if they are built correctly. Ventsare usually installed on the sides and back of the enclosure if the top is solid. I think this poster it replying to winterhill.

When you say 140 and the lizard is out basking?? I assume you mean its say 105 but the lizard or the surface with a temp gun would read 140...I agree and that should tell some here about USEABLE TEMPS but from what I see it will not. Theyll still insist on a "hot spot" of 115...so very sad. Also many desert species such as Desert Igs utilise extensive burrows/at least a descent hole...I bet this allows them to control dehydration. Two months back I was collecting DI's...every one used a hole and shade to thermoregulate...never seen any on flooring tile...again so sad. cheers

"Also many desert species such as Desert Igs utilise extensive burrows/at least a descent hole...I bet this allows them to control dehydration. Two months back I was collecting DI's...every one used a hole and shade to thermoregulate...never seen any on flooring tile...again so sad. cheers"

LOL! If sad means that they clean their salad plates every day, eat flowers out of my hand, are steadily putting on weight, and are breeding now, then I guess they are real sad. I'll ask them, shall I?

Could it be that those desert iggies were hiding in any place available from you? I know I would

hahahahahahahahaha

Had the same desert iggy now for over 5 years, free roamer, just rocks/ crevices/ places to hide, slither under. Seems bright/ spunky and more than just SURVIVING to me :0)

Always good to discuss different means of husbandtry and compare, learn from one another, but if there is NO problem or health issue, I see no reason to put everyone down that does not agree with your way.
I will not put you down or ridicule you, as you are always welcome here / or anyone as long as they conduct themselves in a mannerly way. I just have a different way of doing things that works for me and my lizards , I'm never done learning or changing when I feel it's of value to my animals welfare. Your impling that every ailment they have has to do with having or not having a screen top which is just not so.

Hershey

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Eve
Suncharmers

Eve, that is one handsome boy! Mine are gaining, finally, and I never did worm them as per TGrebs advice! I have two girls that would go gaga over your boy!

I would like to hear your field observations. Anytime I can learn something new so much the better. Not sure what you mean by "field expirience". I certainly did not do a Masters thesis on them but am quite comfortable in their natural history. Chucks and DI's are another matter as they were very very common in several ranges I used observe.

.........

remember that in the field, lizards have burrows and retreats that they go to. they spend most of their time underground, or in protected areas.

lizards bask to obtain body heat needs. basking exposes an animal to predation, it is a dangerous activity. they want to bask, achieve temp needs quickly, then get back to safety (hidespots).

in soil burrows, temps are MUCH lower than daytime air temps and basking temps, and humidity is much higher. this is where they spend a lot of time.

in a "typical" pet store style setup, a glass tank with an open screen top, there is no burrow, no retreat to a higher humidity environment. we are not talking about a moist, wet, or condensation-on-the-walls setup, just more moisture than is usually given. consider that even a desert lizard's bio makeup is MOSTLY water : )

they do drink in a cage, but that is to help offset the moisture lost in the beef jerky machine that is a tank with a screen top (with a hot heat source shooting into it).

an ideal setup has a temp gradient, but also a moisture gradient. many setups are nearly bone dry, and that is detrimental to the animals in the long run.

when you limit venting, such as covering a screen top, you are containing most of the cage heat, along with moisture. that means lower wattage bulbs, and temperature needs that are easier to achieve : )

a chronically dehydrated lizard won't necessarily die in a short period. but over the long term, they suffer organ failure and gout, among other issues, from the chronic state of dehydration.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles