Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can aquarium gravel be used as substrate?
How about aquarium sand?

I've heard of correlations between sand and impaction, but what If I feed the snake outside of its home? Would sand then, be ok?

>>Can aquarium gravel be used as substrate?
>>How about aquarium sand?
>>
>>I've heard of correlations between sand and impaction, but what If I feed the snake outside of its home? Would sand then, be ok?

Here are my view points on sand;
I’ve been housing, snakes for about fourteen years now on sand. I have tried different kinds of sand. The play sand has too many fines in it, could be harmful if the snake ingested to much at once. Be careful when feeding that the mice aren't damp where the sand will stick to the rodent. another problem with fine sand is the fines absorb up to much moisture, so a 1” feces spot will turn into a 3” spot, big coarse sands,(gravel)don't absorb anything, In my tanks, I use a cleaned (dust free) Monterey #2/12 grade kiln dried sand about 1-2 inches deep,(its a smooth beach sand more or less). It’s kind of hard to find, I buy it at industrial supply stores, or sand and gravel supply. It’s used for sandblasting, it’s about 10-20 dollars for 90 lb. Bag. (I've also seen it in pet shops, $10.00 for a 10 lb bag. lol); Retains heat well, doesn't dry out reptiles skin like wood shavings might. I think it’s easy to clean, all I use, is a plastic spoon and paper plates, just scoop it up on to a plate and try to pick up most of moisture. I also use sand in my racks, but only about a 1/2 inch deep where I use a wet-wipes after spoon cleaning the box, put the plate in plastic recycled grocery bags, tie a knot, and drop it into the trash can, EASY. I clean my tanks completely, about twice a year, remove all sand , and clean the tanks with bleach and water. I recycle my dirty sand, by putting it into a bucket and letting it soak in bleach and water for a few days. Then I stir it up with a stick. Push a hose to the bottom of the bucket until water runs clear on the overflow. I then pour it into sandbags and let It dry out till the following year.
A lot of people have talked against sand on the forums, and I just wanted to view some of my thoughts.
I have never had a problem with any of my snakes getting sick or dying yet. Just be careful when feeding that they don't digest a bunch of ANY substrate.
Some of the general care and maintenance books view sand as, (quote; a attractive, natural-looking and easily changeable ground medium.) They only talk about certain types of wood shavings (Quote: cedar, redwood and some snake keepers have suggested pine shaving are potentially harmful to snakes) Maybe I'm missing something here but I believe most snakes live on and in dirt and sandy soils.
BAD SHEDS;
I work construction, and the Three worst things to dry out my hands are, working in dirt, wet concrete, and believe it or not, handling lumber like 2by4s for a day or two. The sand that I use has no fines in it, and doesn't dry out the snakes skin. I very seldom have snakes with a bad shed.
I've also had emails from snake owners of snakes with problems that went away once they switched them from aspen to sand or other non-wood product - a grayband with runny nose and 2 different rosies that were regurging. The owner truly thought these individuals were sensitive to the aspen (or the conditions it created) because of their rapid turnaround once removed from the material.
Another owner emailed me;
I have to say I totally agree with you about the sand. As well, I have had several problems with my kings on aspen or pine bedding. Especially if it has broken down into little bits - it seems to give my snakes allergies. I have now had three kings that, while on the aspen, with cage temps ranging from 70 - 81 degrees, get alot of mucus in their throat and noses. When I have switched them off of that to the turf, two days later they are fine.
Anyway I just wanted to view a few good points about sand.

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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

Here are a few more pictures of the sand

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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

I tried gravel years ago and the liquid that comes out when they poop just mixes down through a huge area. All that gravel must be washed or thrown out, its the most impractical substrate I can think of but it looks good. I don't like sand because it sticks all over the snakes after they burrow through it. I hate them looking dirty all the time. I use ground walnut shell now.
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Muhammad Ali

Here's the ground Walnut shell.

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Muhammad Ali

>>Here's the ground Walnut shell.

Hi Ross, I was wondering how long you have housed your snakes on ground walnut shells? And have they had any problem shedding when you house them on ground walnut shell. The one in the picture looks like his scales are dried out and sunk in on his back, possible dehydration.
Your Input will be appreciated.
Thanks; Bob
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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

Hi Bob, I've used it since 1991. That king has never had shedding problems, but I have had snakes in the past that would but its never been an on going thing.
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Muhammad Ali

>>Hi Bob, I've used it since 1991. That king has never had shedding problems, but I have had snakes in the past that would but its never been an on going thing.

Bob
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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

I just set up two test snakes on gentle touch. I have a rack full of tricolors that I want to move into my living room because of the high temps here in Hemet. I've used Gentle touch on my rodents and it keeps the smell down to almost nothing. The only problem is when it gets wet it expands like crazy. I'm tryig covered water bowls to see if that will help since they can't flip them. Anyone else ever try it?

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Joe

Hi Joe, I've never tried gentle touch before, but if it "expands like crazy", you might want to keep and eye out for inpaction, incase your snakes injest any of the gental touch.
Good Luck; Bob
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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

Anything that expands can cause impactation and in my opinion the benifit is not worth the risk!

Also, sorry to disagree with you Ross, but walnut shell bedding is also a very poor for use with any reptile due to impactations..

For me newspaper is the only way to go.. And, if i were concerned about how my enclosures looked I would then use aspen as the next safest choice, but i never have.

~ Mike Russo

I didn't like the idea of it too much. Walut shell scares me. That stuff is really sharp.
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Joe

Wow, I didn't know that. I recently read somewhere that it wouldn't and could be digested. Maybe that info was wrong.
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Muhammad Ali

We have a local vet's here on Long Island who specializes in reptiles.. (And, he actually knows his stuff when it comes to herps which is nice).. This vet presented at our monthy Long Island Herp meeting and showed us both mid-operation and necropsy slides of dozens of impacted reptiles. The biggest impactation offenders were Walnut shell bedding, Corn Cob bedding, gravel, sand, and Calci-Sand (yes, the stuff at says it's 100% safe for reptiles right on the bag).. he mentioned and showed us some other less common stuff as well.. Like a photo of a beach towel that was eaten by a large boid and 2 light bulbs that had been eaten by a corn snake..

But, my point is why risk an impactation that can kill your animals when there are other/safer choices??

~ Mike Russo

I hear you there! What types of substrates would you recommend?
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Muhammad Ali

That calci sand is some crap. I gave a friend at work some bearded babies last year and she set them up on calci sand. They both died of impaction realted problems. These were three months old and certainly large enough to digest a few grains of sand, but that stuff clumps together and turns into a rock. I used to use sani chips on my snaes when we were in san diego. That's really good bedding, but I can't find it around here.
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Joe

Not only can it cause impactions when ingested in large quantities, but it is also really sharp. If you look at it under a microscope it looks like shards of ceramic. Not the best choice at all!
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Diego

I meant to say....

Anything that expands can cause impactation!

Also, sorry to disagree with you Ross, but walnut shell bedding is a very poor choice for use with any reptile, due to impactations..

For me newspaper is the only way to go.. And, if i were concerned about how my enclosures looked, I would use aspen as the next safest choice... But, i never have.

~ Mike Russo

That's ok Mike, we know what you meant, thanks for the input, it's always good to review products once in awhile.
Thanks again,Bob

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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

As for safe bedding, I keep 1 corn snake on newspaper because he seems to have an allergy to aspen. Everyone else except the Sand Boa and Redtail are on aspen. Now, my question comes down to those two, and I know this forum isn't about them but while we are on the bedding conversation.... Anyway, the redtail is on EcoEarth or Bed A Beast and the Kenya sand boa is on a mix of that and the sand that advertises that it is round and not sharp (can't place the name). I found this mixture on the sand boa forums. If I do not keep her on something that she can burrow into and isn't kept a bit moist, then she doesn't shed right and won't eat well. She just seems happier on this than newspaper etc. What does everyone think about this?