Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm currently fostering three baby Savannahs, am considering adopting one or two of them. The problem is that I've never had anything like this before, and don't know how to start taming them. I have experience with bearded dragons and adult iguanas, and even a large Burmese pythons, but not monitors. Will they be like dragons and just calm down more as they grow, growing out of the "I'm a Ritz cracker for the natural world so I have to ack like a bad ass or I'll be eaten" attitude, or do they need more daily handling like an iguana? If they need more daily handling, how do you not get bitten? They're eating me out of house and home, fat and sassy, and about eight inches now.

Katrina

Katrina, don't expect to get any sound advice in this room. People in here are prejudiced towards newcomers and honest questions mostlikely will not get answered. They do not believe in constructive criticism but instead believe on attacking the integrity of others. In fact they will answer this post now, ONLY because I have chosen to reply because of their animosity towards me.

Now...
if you think taking care of those lizards is bad now, it will only get worse as they get older and bigger. Imagine how much you are feeding them now and now think a year ahead from now, when they will be close to 2 feet long and wanting you to feed them 2-3 rats, not mice, but rats a week! Multiply that times 3, you have three lizards right? You can imagine how old that ritual might get. And expensive! Believe me, these are nothing like taking care of beardies. And their feces smell worse than a cats! Beardies would be a cake walk in comparison to having a Sav. And if their temperment is bad now, it won't really improve unless you handle them constantly. I'm talking about an hour a day, everyday! And believe me, the damage that their bite can do will incrementally get worse the older they get. Their teeth are razor sharp and a bite from a larger specimen can require stitches. My friend made the analogy that Savannah Monitors are like the "Pit Bulls" of the lizard world. They will bite down, lock their jaws and not let go. Not a very pleasant feeling let me tell you. My friend one time had to pry one off of his ear with a screwdriver! The thing was sitting innocently on his shoulder one moment, then turned into a vicious monster the next! And see, that was supposedly even a "tame" monitor. Remember, a lizard, especially a varanid will never truley become "tame." That is the biggest bunch of crap anyone can ever tell you. Lizards do not have an innate want or need to be touched. And a savannah is definitely not recommended as an ideal family pet. I'm not sure if you are ready to handle the incredible task of taking care of these things. I'm telling you, they are a load. It might be wise to sell these things now while they are still young and healthy. You can post an ad up on Kingsnake classifieds

http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=53

heck, I've even seen people giving those things away for free on there. I apologize that no one else in this room has responded to your post as of yet. I find that these people are extremely rude and not the best people to ask for advice. Unfortunately, there are those in here who have it out for me, and will do whatever they can to have my posts removed, including this one, so that they can maintain their monopoly of this forum. If you get a response from any of these people...Lucien, Shvar, Meretseger, or Robert, be well cautioned that they are doing it just IN SPITE of me and not because of their general concern for your inquiry. I think there is something seriously mentally wrong with these people, they worship their lizards, sometimes even giving them cult religious names. I am serious. I think they value them as much or more than their own children, which I think is extremely disturbing.
Anyways, I hope this was of some help!

Link for kingsnake classifieds again...
Link

SavanaMan..If you think I don't have better things to do with my time than answer posts just to spite you...you're way too self-centered for your own good..

Now, onto Katrina's question..

You have 3 lizards right now that may hate you for life. Monitors are not meant to be pets..Many never become "tame" in any sense of the word. Handleable and tolerant maybe..but tame never. Most that I've spoken with have found that a hands off approach works best when working with these animals. I'm a new monitor keeper as well, though not in the least new to reptiles. I was fully prepared though for A. the appetite, B. the attitude, and C. the space needed for these guys. Each of your little babies there will grow into a 3 ft body of muscle that can easily send you to the hospital. They need large enclosures..the larger the better...as a matter of fact, room size is good for them if it can be swung. But enclosures need to generally be at least 6 or 7 ft long and 4 ft wide to accomodate one Bosc (Savannah) monitor. They will calm down as they age and you'll notice a strong tendency to struggle for the first 10 or 15 minutes anytime you take them out of their enclosure..then calm down slowly after that period. I have a 15 inch Bosc right now who has the attitude of a Tazzy Devil.. He'll tackle anything and everything including my german shepherd who got too close to him. Gave her a solid tail whack across the nose.

If you think you can provide well for the animals, then I urge you to buy some books and do alot of research so you know what you're getting into. These are not easy animals to deal with..but they are very rewarding as long as you obey the cardinal rule: Respect them..they don't love you, they may not even like you very much..but they demand respect.

Thanks for that. Now, here's another question. Right now they seem to enjoy sleeping together, piled up like puppies. I'm assuming this is, again, a result of being small, and there's safety in numbers - or at least likely only one will be eaten while the others escape. How much longer will this behavior last? Do they appreciate "company" later in life, or prefer to be alone as adults? Do you recommend any particular book or website? I don't like de Vosjoli's books too much, other than his slider book, but don't see much else in the pet stores. With the MARS show coming up in a couple of weeks, I'll have a variety of herp-related books to choose from.

At what age/size do they enter the terrible teens, and how long does it last?

I've heard a rumor that snakes dislike strong alcohols such as Vodka, and that some people keep a spray bottle of it in their snake rooms when handling large snakes, in case one latches on. Does this apply to varanids as well (if it is even true)?

Katrina

I hope my oppinion is welcome as I am not trying to interupt your questioning someone elses post.

Tell us how you are heaing the enclosure and what the temps are. It sounds to me like they may be competing for warmth. But aside from that many varanids do well in groups given enough space. I have 3 flavi argus cross adults that lay all over each other when basking but not much other than that. That behavior can last the rest of their lives.

I have never experienced the "terrable teens" with my animals. I have both young and adult it makes no difference in my eyes what the ages are.

Strong alcohols or vinegar I hear works with either snakes or monitors but I prefer neither. I have never experienced a bite. (sure as I tell you this I will get bitten) but I know my animals and handle / treat them accordingly. I have a couple that are more apt to bite so I watch for it. I have many more that aren't so I watch for it even more.

Later, Gene

im tired of the stereo typical people at the expos and on here, i have 6 monitors and all were aquired as juviniles and yes they were tempermental then but with handling and age they gained trust, and now i have three savannahs and green tree and two nile monitor and they all run to the front of the cage to get out when im in sight of it, they never bite anymore and never squirm and i would even go as far as to say there tame. so please would everyone just have faith in the monitors, with proper care and handling they can become trusting of you and even tame almost dog like, if you have any doughts i invite you for dinner at my house and i garantee that you can get in the cage with any of them and no bite shall occur.

I did not respond because the answers he/she is seeking, will come in time, as long as he/she is dedicated to the monitors. If he/she isn't it matters little what I say. The taming discussion has taken place millions of times, look in the archives.

I would leave it all alone, except you are so full of it, it isn't even funny.

If they do have razor sharp teeth and pit bull jaw strength, why does your friend still have an ear? Do you really think a screwdriver was necessary? I think anyone in that situation was a complete moron to get in that situation. And that does relate directly to you, because you think this says something about monitors and it doesn't, it speaks volumes about you and your friends.

It is quite apparent that you have little to no experience in monitors, as some do become very docile, but they will always do what they want, when they want. Some people actually get and keep reptiles, because they like them, not because they think it makes them look more manly or mature. If you would get/keep or get rid of any reptile because of what was/is said on the internet, you are not in it for the right reasons.

As far as my children go, get a life and grow up (get past puberty). I devote a large amount of my time, money and effort to my monitors, but it pales in comparison to my kids. I would suggest you get past being a child before you even attempt to make any judgements or statements on anyone raising them.

--Robert

Good point, but thats what he said! I think it did scar up his ear somewhat. It's enough to make me never want to put a lizard on my shoulder! But yeah that guy had some of the meanest reptiles. His nile was the worst, but he ended up letting that go out in the woods of east texas.

Thank you for the reply. I am leaning toward keeping at least one. These are rescues I'm fostering, not purchases. We have a good rescue and adoption network in the mid-Atlantic, so I'll refrain from using the classifieds forum, but thank you for the suggestion.

I don't mind handling "dangerous" reptiles, as I worked with rattlesnakes and a 13' Burmese in college, and have wrangled a few large snapping turtles. An iguana isn't exactly tame, either. My main worry is the smell, and what my husband will think when he discovers that I've brought home hissing cockroaches to breed for the lizards! He already puts up with pinkies in the freezer for my caecilians, and there's a good frozen rodent supplier locally (Three Blind Mice, 100 pinkies for $30) that I can go into a co-op with someone else for rats.

As for "that ritual might get old", I already prepare iguana salad daily and dole out insects and pellets to various other herps. Been doing it for years now. I buy a 500 count of superworms every four months and maintain those during that time for the other herps.

If I can't handle them, then how do I know the person(s) responding to a classified ad will? Although I'm enamored of them, I will be able to hand them over for adoption, but will still worry about the quality of care they receive after me.

BTW, their names are James, Lars, and Kirk.

Katrina

I really hope they / it prove to be great captives as so many do.

Later, Gene

Your comments, insults, and attitude is what causes your posts to be removed, not us. I will not ignore you unless your behavior doesnt change, from this point now. Ill give you a chance as one other came here with the same behavior but is gone now. This forum allows alot more than what most others do but we are also trying to help each other no matter how much experience you have, some of the names youve listed as disagreeing with have learned the hard way many times the right an wrong way of doing things, they are not sheep following a flock, of course if you keep monitors more than a few months to a year or more you will learn the hard way how wrong you can be, and thats only the beginning of this hobby, the problems just keep coming as the animal gets older and does what its suposed to do in life.

A boscs teeth are sharper when very young but they can bite hard. Ive been bit by 4 of them, 2 niles, 5 albigs, a water, a timor, and a few others, of which all were my fault or someone nearby. The bosc bites hurt and bleed, the timor suprised me with his bite (bled good also), the niles bled and hurt, the water bled but wasnt as bad as I expected, but by far the albig bites Ive had take the cake. One bit almost through my right ear from base to middle, but it healed fast like my fingers, hand etc.
Not to make it sound too bad but, and Ive not been bit by any of my albigs now at all, or my ackie. I guess it takes learning the hard way sometimes.

I think I'm going to stick with turtles

iv had my softshells and snappers maul me pretty bad, and large cooters develope sickle shaped cusps for chopping plants, those HURT!

There is a reason this forum is so unpopular..............

Katrina, there are plenty of us that can & will help you if you need advice. It can be a lot of work but a very rewarding experience living with varanids. There is plenty to consider but how hard they bite has never been at the top of my list. True they aren't beardies or geckos but you will learn to understand the animal and know how to handle it in order to avoid most if not all bites.

They are a lot of work, they eat a bunch and poop accordingly but what animals doesn't.

Ask specifics, keep us posted, and above all. Enjoy the animals.

Later, Gene

He could easily remove the side of my face but that doesn't make him any less enjoyable.

Just concentrate on raising them, some may calm down, some may not.

I will say all of the monitors I got when young, were pretty jumpy, but settled down as they grew.

Ignore the teens and you will probably do fine

--Robert

I think you will have better luck thinking of them as an iguana temperament. They are NOT gonna just mellow like a beardie. I work with mine as if they (both savs) were igs with more attitude. They will likely need more work than igs though....or at least mine have. And more caution. An ig isn't gonna snatch your hand off if it moves too fast, like a small prey animal.
-----
Sonya

-I had a baby monitor, and I can tell you that they dont grow out of the "im a ritz cracker for the natural world" attitude (by the way, that was really funny). I was told that they do - and so I didnt bother handling it when it was small. Its hatred of me remained the same; the difference is that it was bigger and could back up its hisses with some teeth.

-I just recently bought a water monitor and asked for some advice in the forum. Didnt get many responses. But I got a pair of leather gloves and I hold her every night.

Its been a little over a week, and already I see improvement. In the past, every time I would grab her she'd bite the heck out of my hand/glove, now she more or less lets me know shes not happy about it by hissing/maybe tailwhipping, but doesnt bite as much.

I also discovered a 'monitor sweetspot'. Gently rub the back of their neck with a finger (moving the skin like a massage). I did this to my water monitor by accident, and she totally relaxed and after a minute or so she even closed her eyes. It was a transition from biting/hissing/pissed off at the world to total tranquility. When I finished I put her back in her cage and opened my hand. She sat on it for a bit, looking at me. Then she seemed to remember that she didnt like me and she hissed and ran away =0.

I also have had a limited experience with my Sav. about 5 months. I had them since they were maybe 6". I got them for $7.00 for the pair. At first I would want to pick them up every day then I notice that one of the was being to get a running nose. I relize that I was the problem. I think by trying to tame them I was really stress them.. I began to leave them along, and only bother them for cleaning. I have notice they are finally come around they do not run and hide when I come into the room when they basking in the Hotlight . They even come out when I am in the room for long period of time. Last weekend I put them outside with a least ,so they can get nature sun. they were fine and clam. I know it not much ,but I am pretty happy with them.Even doe they were the size at one time. I also notice that the larger one is more clamer then the smaller one.

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?photo=96855

Here's a picture of the three - I still don't know how to post a picture to a post, and I've looked through the archives - they are a bit puffed up because I startled them out of sleep to get the picture. I have three plastic hiding boxes, two at the warm end and one on the cool end, in a 20 gallon long for now. They will sleep two or three to a hide box on the warm end, but will bask individually ON TOP of the hide boxes (which is hilarious to see), or between them, usually after eating. I make sure each eats seperately so that they each get their fill, a mix of crickets (the majority), superworms, and pinkies, with a dusting of Rep-Cal with D3 (especially the superworms). Was feeding daily, but am going to every other day, based on how fat their tails are. They have a new Reptisun 5.0. I also have artificial silk plants in there for hiding and visual stimulation. I'll check the temperatures tonight, but I'm using a 75 watt black light for 24/7 heat at the one end. I was afraid it would be too hot at first, but judging by their activity level and where they sleep, it seems to be working.

I love it at night near or after feeding time, when I can hear the rustling of little feet around the corner.

Katrina