Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i am not sure if i can collect Lampropeltis zonata because someone told me they were indangered. what are the laws and can i sell a native species? i had someone on youtube tell me i could but i am pretty sure i cannot sell w/c snakes that are native. any help would be appreciated and references would be as well. here is what the kid told me to use as a reference. it says i am allowed to keep two Lampropeltis zonata's but says nothing about selling them. thanks again
http://www.californiaherps.com/info/herpinglaws.html

I live in Chatsworth, CA, and as far as I know it's one zonata per fishing license, except for L.z. pulchra (which is illegal to collect & possess). There is no CA license available to breed or sell zonata if you live in CA. The only CA snake species that you are able to breed and sell w/ a permit ($48) from F&G are Cal Kings, Gophers and Rosy Boas. I think the possession limit while collecting for those species is Cal Kings 4, Gophers 4, Boas 2. Best of luck.

reako45

I second reako45's comment. Also, you can't sell what you've caught in CA. Here's a link.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/fg1502.pdf
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Muhammad Ali

np.
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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

You can breed Zonata with an RA permit - but no more than one zonata per license may be wild caught, any others in your collection must be documented captive bred - and you can not sell them.

With an RA permit there's a cumulative limit to 30 non commercial specimens in your collection, I believe including WC of commercial species but I'm not sure. However - that doesn't mean you can exceed possession limit on wild caught.

I breed my Elgaria under the same permit as my Cal Kings.
I'm allowed to have more than possession limit of Elgaria but only two of them may be wild caught - same applies with zonata except the limit on wc zonata is 1.

If you are single living alone - the only way to get a breeding pair of zonata is for another breeder to gift you one that they bred under permit, or collect one gravid female as your one wild caught and hold back some of the young.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

I should add that I think the F&G regulations are stupid.

I think if you have a permit - since you are already restricted to no more than 3 non commercial species, that your WC limit should be increased to 4 per non commercial species as long as it is legal to collect any. The current regulations really discourage captive breeding, especially of zonata.

If 4 zonata could be collected with an RA permit, I bet they would find a lot more people breeding them, which ultimately would allow them to lift the non commercial status and they would soon become just as readily available as pyros, reducing wild collection (as selective breeding would make stellar specimens rarely found in the wild readily available)

But - the law is the law.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

The whole intent of the zonata limit of 1 is to discourage the collection of these animals. The law makes sense if that is one's agenda.
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Mark

The law doesn't stop collection. It only moves the collection underground.

A law written to encourage captive breeding would make the species much more readily available through legal channels which would reduce poaching.

Do you think a poacher is going to catch baby cal kings that are generally lower quality than what you can buy at a show for $25.00?

Not likely. However, zonatas - even low quality specimens - are worth quite a bit on the underground.

Keep the collection laws the same for Joe Public. Allow those with an RA permit to collect four for breeding purposes, and in 3 or 4 generations there will be entire clutches of CB zonata that outshine the vast majority of wild caught specimens.

Are you going to spend the gas and time to poach a mediocre zonata when you can legally buy a stellar specimen for much less? Most people won't.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

well i live in sonora california and i think i have only seen the elusive california mountain king once. i thought it was one of the prettiest snakes out here. i wish i could find one for my collection but most kings i catch out here are california kings. i also recently caught 2 gophers in the last week but i let them go on my dads proporty which is only about a mile or so from where i caught them. my dad has a gopher infestation that you wouldnt believe.

I hear you. I do not agree with the current bag limit. Through the eyes of the lawmakers that drafted it, I see their intent.

I actually think Cal king habitat is much more threatened overall, especially in So Cal.
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Mark

You need to check with F&G but this is my understanding -

Baja Mountain Kingsnake - Lampropeltis zonata algama -
-- Not native to California, no restrictions
San Diego Mountain Kingsnake - Lampropeltis zonata pulchra -
-- Collection and possession specifically forbidden
All other zonata -
-- Possession limit of one, illegal to sell, illegal to import from other states.

California Kingsnake - Lampropeltis getula californiae
-- Possession limit of 4 wild caught, no limit on captive bred
-- Sales of wild caught specifically forbidden
-- Sales of Captive Bred require that you are either a licensed pet store or that you have a native species breeding permit. Individuals may sell specimens they legally purchased as pets without a permit, but you can't buy for the purpose of selling unless you have an RA permit or are a bonafide pet store.
-- Pink eyed albino do not require a permit to sell and/or breed.
-- Importing from other states is perfectly legal.

That's my understanding - but go to the F&G website and read the regs for yourself.
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I decided my old sig was too big.