Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just finished my pen for my hatchlings but I am looking for some information. By the looks of the pen can anyone offer some advice about what else I need to put inside. I have added more rocks to the water since I took the picture. Right now I am putting them outside in the morning but taking them in at night. I live in NY and I think it is still a bit cool at night. I was also wondering why with all that room would 4 or 5 of them clutch together in a corner I found that kinda funny I understood when they were in a small tank in the house but now with such a large amount of space I couldnt help but wonder. Also I have another baby from last year who has also been inside his/her entire life what I found strange is when I took him/her out of the tank he/she is all out of his/her shell no fear moving his legs but as soon as I put him outside he tightens up like a clam for quite a while. Eventually he comes out but I was wondering why that is. I didnt even put him near the other 10 I put him by himself on one of the rocks and for a good half hour or so he would not open up.

Hide boxes/areas are important. I'd add some of those. I'd also add visual barriers like small logs. Some leaves in a section would give the turtles something to explore. At that size the turtles shouldn't be able to trample decent-sized plants, so I'd consider that too.

Tim

Third Eye

Lovely Floridas! I too use visual barriers to make my pens more comfortable for my turtles. A few really like to be up high, like kings of the mountain (the males are more inclined than the females). I mound dirt in the middle of the pen about 6-8 inches high, add some flat rocks or tree bark and plant some ground cover for shade.

Heres my box turtles encloser.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii62/grogansilv

Hi love ya eastern box turtle babys i have a male which i have had for 23 years and my female four about 4 years. let me ask you something do you hibernate your turtles to get the babys every year cause you say you live in new york so where do you hibernate them. i dont know but mine dont give me any eggs they havent for years and i live in upstate ny too.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii62/grogansilver/boxturtles005.jpg

I have 2 adult males and 2 adult females that live outside all year around. I have only been keeping them outside all year for probably the last 5 to 8 years. Someone had told me that was the way to get babies and they were right. I unfortunatly had to learn to care for the babies by trial and error so I did not have much success. But last year I got 1 out of 2 that survived and this years bunch so far 10 out of 10. Thats the most I ever got. What happens is when they hatch they go right for the water that I have set up but its to deep and I end up finding some that drowned. So last year I was more prepared for about when they hatch and I got all 10. I was keeping them in the house in 10 gallon tank which is obviously to small for 10 so thats why I had the new pen built by me and my Dad. So for now until it warms up I am putting them outside in the morning and bringing them in at night I think its still a bit cold for them.

My turtles were always brought inside for the winter they actually never hibernate the picture you see is their home inside my reptile room which is always a constant 75-80 degrees the other picture that i showed is there out side incloser from april to september. Were are you located upstate or long island? I am upstate,hey if you ever want to find a home for some of the babys i would take a few of your hands. well got to go see ya around by the way my e-mail address is grogansilver@yahoo.com if you ever want to reach me

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii62/grogansilver/snake002.jpg

The lack of brumation may actually be the cause of your lack of eggs. Also, many box turtles are incorrectly sexed. I can't count how many times people have shown me female box turtles that were actually males, and vice versa.

Diet and/or UVB exposure may also play a role in reproduction, and the lack thereof.

Let me ask you something can i leave them (my turtles) outside in the pen for the winter even dow for the last 23 years my male has always been inside for the winter months do you think he would remember and know how to hibernate. my female i have had her for a couple of years now so she might still know how to hibernate.

What are you using for winter time bedding? It looks like wood shaving. Do you keep it moist? Since you have other herps in the room and cross contamination is possible-you'll want to keep your box turtles in top condition so they will not become ill if something is floating around. Dry nasal passages in box turtles can cause them to be more susceptible to infections. Your turtles looks great, but there is always a first time and moist bedding is the norm for turtles.
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Tess Cook
Box Turtle Care and Conservation Website
www.boxturtlesite.info

this is the first time in 23 years im using aspen shaving. My turtles only got sick once and that was with an eye infection and i used gantricine to cure it, but i have a private vet that takes care of them just in case its good to know one. let me ask you something would you mist the aspen shaving once in a while?

By the way I bought your book it was very good. gave me a lot of good information. thanks.

I'd get rid of the shavings altogether and use a substrate that retains moisture better. Soil or soil mixed with peat is what they prefer and more like what they have on the forest floor where they spend most of their time in the wild.

I think you'll find aspen shaving is not as good as other materials you may have used in the past. It isn't natural for the turtles to be kept dry and if you mist the shaving, which is fine, but it doesn't retain the moisture very long. I have used almost all types of bedding-even the bad ones, and I can say from experience, a mixture of long fiber spaghnum moss and peat moss or coconut coir is the best. You may get tiny flying gnats due to the high moisture, but they are harmeless to the turtles and other herps.

Thanks for buying my book Tess

>>this is the first time in 23 years im using aspen shaving. My turtles only got sick once and that was with an eye infection and i used gantricine to cure it, but i have a private vet that takes care of them just in case its good to know one. let me ask you something would you mist the aspen shaving once in a while?

yeh i going to go out and buy the repti bark which retains moisture $20.00 bag should due it. thanks

>>yeh i going to go out and buy the repti bark which retains moisture $20.00 bag should due it. thanks

It can be rinsed and reused over and over so the cost was worth it to me.

"I have used almost all types of bedding-even the bad ones, and I can say from experience, a mixture of long fiber spaghnum moss and peat moss or coconut coir is the best."

When you say this, do you mean best from a sanitary/simplicity of maintenance standpoint for indoor enclosures? When you completely remove soil and leaf litter and pine/evergreen needles from the equation, you're removing the components that make up close to 100% of the forest floor, which is where they (particularly T.c. carolina) spend most of their time in their natural habitat. I guess if you don't like bugs it's a good way to go, but the turtles like the bugs. I don't think you can improve on nature, so I just use their natural substrate.

As sometimes happens when answering a topic with many replies, the subject matter changed. I was anwering a person who had an indoor setup using aspen shavings, not the original question of what to add to an outdoor baby turtle pen. In most home situations it's hard to bring in outdoor bedding materials-the larger insects are just part of the problem, there are also the tiny insects turtles do not eat and the mold spores that can be bothersome to some people with allergies.

I have used soil and leaves many times in indoor setups but now prefer to use a mixture of long fiber spaghnum moss and peat moss or coconut coir in them. I use it because of the ease of keeping it moist and not having to worry about growing a colony of fungus.

My outdoor enclosures (which is where all my turtles live) is just dirt, grass, hardwood mulch and leaf mulch. I keep a compost pile of just grass clippings and leaves and I add the leave mulch to the pens several times a year for that natural feel under foot Tess

>>"I have used almost all types of bedding-even the bad ones, and I can say from experience, a mixture of long fiber spaghnum moss and peat moss or coconut coir is the best."
>>
>>When you say this, do you mean best from a sanitary/simplicity of maintenance standpoint for indoor enclosures? When you completely remove soil and leaf litter and pine/evergreen needles from the equation, you're removing the components that make up close to 100% of the forest floor, which is where they (particularly T.c. carolina) spend most of their time in their natural habitat. I guess if you don't like bugs it's a good way to go, but the turtles like the bugs. I don't think you can improve on nature, so I just use their natural substrate.
>>
>>

Nice structure.

I just have a couple of pointers...you may want to make the mesh on the lid more fine. If black racers are common in your area, they will eat young box turtles. Also, they need a much more humid substrate. Your turtles are showing very slight growth abnormalities...this can be dietary and/or humidity related. In yours, it appears to be humidity related. Good old fashioned leaf compost and/or long fiber sphagnum moss are your best bets for humid substrate. Also, you may want to mix some organic matter into the soil itself. Hope you don't mind the two cents.

Cute little group!

Snakes arent a problem here on Long Island. What do you mean by leaf compost and I dont know what that moss is your talking about is it something I can get at the store? Also what do you mean organic matter? I think your probably right about the humidity problem because I have had them in a 10 gallon with repti bark that I mist every day. The substrate in the pen is dirt and sand that is the same thing that I have in my adult pen so we figured they would be fine with that should i wet it down when i put them in there in the morning will that help? And what do you mean by growth abnormalties I kinda thought they looked pretty good but any tips on what I should be watching for would be greatly appreciated. So go ahead and give me more than 2 cents LOL!

hey you may also want to put up some shade maybe some hidding places like half a log or a hide cave of some sort also some plant matter as well they need to feel a sense of security
but you are a lucky dude to have them good luck post some new ones real soon.

Hey, no problem.

Compost is really just a term for decaying plant matter. Leaf compost is decaying leaves. You can literally just walk under an oak tree and scoop up a bunch of the leaf compost beneath. The stuff that is partially broken down on the lowermost layer is great for holding moisture and attracting little insects for the turtles. It is believed that baby box turtles live in this layer between the decaying matter and the soil for most of their young lives.

Sphagnum moss is sold at any garden center and even at Walmart. I have found some inexpensive long fiber moss for sale in the orchid section of "Lowe's Home Improvement Center". It comes in a little square bale. It looks like just long pieces of green/tan moss. It is great for holding moisture and maintaining a bit of acidity(which helps fight off harmful bacteria and fungi). Just ask for sphagnum moss. They may take you to the sphagnum peat that is sold in large bales in the outside garden center. While this is good for adding to the soil, it is not good for a moisture holding top dressing.

Organic matter addded to the soil helps the soil hold moisture. Organic matter can be leaves, peat, grass clippings, wood chips, etc.. Ideally, it should be a combination of different types. You have some very nice, rich soil based on your photos. But, it looks like it would dry out quickly. Your spraying may not be enough. Adding the organic matter into the soil will help.

I can only see some early signs of growth abnormalities clearly on a few of the babies. Growth should be very rounded and smooth. Some shells appear rough. There is one hatchling facing away from the camera in the dead center of the photo...I can see how each scute is flattened, and meets the next scute at an angle, rather than a smooth, round transition. I've seen this type of growth in other hatchlings kept too dry. It isn't quite the pyramiding associated with dietary problems, but it still isn't ideal. Increasing the moisture by using material that naturally holds moisture well will do wonders for correcting any moisture-related growth issues.

I hope this is helpful. They all have significant growth on them, and that is a great achievement.