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I will be using the name Ultra on any animals that are produced from my line , I have wanted to come up with a name to describe these animals as they are so different, and with the help of Shannon and others that I had asked about names,I will be using Ultra

Ultra Hypo
Ultra Albino
Ultra Ghost
Ultra Anery
Ultra Hybino
Ultra Pearl
Ultra Snow

thanks,Terry Maheuron

Yes, that is a excellent idea.We need to really think about the future and all the new people getting in this hobby. Would be great to keep all the lines staright as possible.

So here is my ultra hypo male.

Shannon

Hi Terry,

Doug Mong has an Extreme that he has been calling an Ultra for a few months now, so if he did not get that from You, this may be even more confusing. I think they are all Extrme Hypos. They all originated from the same stock, meaning Dunham and Falcon. I think what makes yours so special is that it is also a double or you could say a triple het in addition to being an awesome looking snake, which makes it the best Honduran male on the planet. The Extreme female that produced our Extreme Ghost last year had all Extremes in her clutch. The male Ghost did not have any Extreme lineage. She is also possibly Het Albino. We paired her with an Albino Double Het this year and she is about to lay her clutch, so maybe we will have some answers then. She was produced by Dunham. This is just my opinion and frankly I hope I'm wrong because the more Honduran morphs we have to work with the better. Good luck!
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Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

Joe I wasn't aware that Doug used the name ultra ,he will have to let me know as I do want to put a handle for say on this line ,just to keep a solid location on where it came from down the road .The little male in the second picture is going to be nicer than his dad

Terry M

Terry it's on a post back on march 26th. Doug states that this line was from Lee Abbott's line and that Lee is the one that used the Ultra term to describe his line of Extremes.
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Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

Joe , I went back to that post and Doug has the container from Lee and it is labeled Ultra Hypo . So I need to get hold of Lee and see if he does use that term,thanks for the input

Terry M

Joe this is the dad and the male that is going to look even better I believe

Terry M

Very nice Terry!
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Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

Joe, I also have a couple I produced last year that I was calling ultra light hypos just cause of the look of them.They were from a generic line hypo to a falcon extreme and the babies weren't really extreme but were better and lighter than any regular hypos.
I can't speak for Doug but I am sure he is calling his ultra hypo cause of its look and not lineage.
I think this would be a good idea as Terry's animals were from triple het to triple het from Dunham. Falcon's exreme line can't really be tarced back so we can't say they are the same and Terry's acts like a co-dom gene cause it is expressed in first generation and on any type of phenotype so far. Mikes is only expressed so far as hypos and then ghost (still hypos).
Anyway, ist just my 0.2 cents.

L8r Shannon

Hi Shannon,

The Ultra term used by Doug came from Lee Abbott according to his post back on March 26th. What I wonder is how many people have actually bred an Extreme to an Albino. Most are working on Hypos and Ghosts, so it stands to reason that this is why we have not seen it before. We bred an Extreme to a Snow this year, as well as an Extreme to a Double Het Albino, so we should know more about what our stuff can or can't do then. I think Terry M. has the best male Honduran on the planet and made one of the best purchases in Honduran History. I know a few people that passed on it(Ouch!). This is good stuff and like I said I hope it is something different all together because then we have more genes to play with. Good luck!
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Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

Shannon, I saw that you also responded to that post and said that you have used that term as well, so are they Brown, Abbott, or Terry M. Ultras? Anyway, Terry you call them what ever you want and good luck with the rest of your clutches.
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Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

LOL, I have for a couple years been calling the hypos I produce from a falcon extreme to a normal "ultra lights" but just cause of looks and not lineage. I would never call them Brown ultra's LOL... people would think they are brown in color.LOL....

Its all Good,
L8r Shannon

Joe,
Thanks and yes I agree.I have seen and Talked with Lee about that a couple years ago in Daytona and I was the one that told him he shouldn't call his extreme's cause they really weren't extreme but much much better than most the hypos out there.I told him he should call them "ultra lights" and I guess he just went with "ultra". I havn't been to Daytona since (05) so I didn't see he was running with it.

For what its worth I still think that Terry's animals are different than Mikes.
I know that Mike has bred extreme to albino and just got all normals (dbl-hets of coarse) and when one of Terry's line is bred it shows in the first generation.Even the orig triple het bred to anything will produce extremes (or whatever they are).

I have 3 clutches cooking from the orig triple het male so we will see.And I also have 3 cooking from the tri-color hypo (extreme/ultra/whatever???) so we will see what that brings and also one clutch from him to a falcon extreme.

We should be able to shed allot of light on this morph this year.And I agree Terry has the best animal out there right now for sure.

L8r
Shannon

I just went to check on the Extreme possible Double Het that we bred to the Albino Double Het and she is laying right now. The other pic is from two days ago. She is the mother of our Extreme Ghost and is possibly Het Albino, so we will be anxiously waiting for this clutch to hatch.

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Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

awesome clutch man, keep us posted.

L8r

Very nice Joe , good luck

Terry M

I asked Lee himself last year at Daytona as to "why" he called his "ULTRA" hypos, and he told me that he didn't want to step on Mike Falcon's toe's by selling similar looking animals just a few tables down from Mike and call them "extremes", since Mike was the originator of the "Extreme" line. I also asked Mike Falcon if Lee bought his animals directly from him, and he said that he did not, but on the other hand, they could very well be(and likely are) Falcon line animals bought by Lee from another source, I wish I would have thought to ask Lee about that at the time I was talking to him.

Also, from what I gathered, he labeled them "Ultra Hypo's" because some weren't quite light enough to be technically called extremes, as in many other extreme clutches,which is what Shannon was talking about, and I also agree that the name "Ultra Hypo" is quite fitting for animals that are exceptionally light, but maybe not quite light enough to wear the name "extreme". Common sense would dictate that at some point, if an animal's coloration is no longer quite extreme, and the animals display melanin bands that get darker and darker, i.e. further away from "extreme", at some point it is no longer an "extreme", and would have to then become something else, but at exactly what shade of gray does this take place?. Well, this is where it becomes a "judgement call", and could be called different things by different people depending on who you ask, and in what type of light someone is looking at the animal in. Animals on either opposing side of the spectrum are very easy to classify, but the animals that are far superior and lighter than normal hypo's, yet aren't quite light enough to be truly considered "extreme" hypos, I think are best described as being "ultra-light" hypos as Shannon has already mentioned, or even the shortened version "Ultra Hypos" as Lee labeled his. I tend to think that Shannon and Lee's conversation regarding the "Ultra" name was probably the reason he labeled them as such,.....and in my opinion, is a very accurate name for them.

Mike said that he considers this one pictured from Lee an extreme, albeit certainly not the lightest out there. One thing I DID notice about Lee's, was the fact that they have(at least the ones I saw) some very intense complimenting band colors of reddish orange, and tangerine orange that I thought was VERY striking!

Anyhoo, whatever the case is, and whatever name they might be called, I think they are pretty darn sweet. I don't think there's much debate about that part..

best regards, ~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Great post Doug,
So what do you think would be a good name for Terry's animals.They are different looking than Falcon's for sure (I have both to compare)and they tend to express there morph (whatever its going to be called) in the first generation like a co-dom or in the corns they are calling it ultra also.

Anyway, I think Terry is going to talk with Lee and I am sure they will come up with something.Not looking for a catchy marketing name but would like for Terry to place a real good name that fits and differentiates the two lines.

Just think four or five years from now, it would be nice for people to know what they are getting when the see the classifieds.It would be nice for names to fit bloodlines.Like in corns if you see the name "lave" or something no mater who is selling it you will know what it is.

L8r Shannon

Yeah,....I can certainly dig what you're saying about them being uniquely different, there ain't no question there.

As for a good name, I'd certainly take some time and think-up a good fitting descriptive name for sure, and certainly not one that sounded too corny, or flashy. You and I both know there is FAR too much of that already as it is.

I couldn't agree with you more about trying to keep it unique and descriptive enough to make absolutely sure it minimizes any confusion regarding other hypo/t albino lines too,.....after all, that's what the hobby needs....MORE confusion,..right?..hahaha!

Like you mentioned earlier, everyone will know(and prove out) a lot of things this year, I'm also looking forward to seeing what you produce with those pairings you have, that will be quite interesting to say the least. Too bad Terry had the duds, that's a real bummer.

Yeah Shannon, some really killer stuff coming up right around the corner here, I'm sure you won't sleep too well as the 60th day and beyond approach with the egg incubation!..hahahhaa!!!

take care, man! ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Doug ,thanks for all your input , I don't want to go overboard on a name and get everyone confused .The reason is ,I have had a few people new to the Honduran world ask me about these animals I have .They ask is it a hypo or is it an extreme ,I tell them it it both ,and they come back , well it doesn't look like the other hypos or extremes I looked at ? That's when I decided to try to come up with something .Very nice animal you have there by the way .

take care
Terry M
what about.... Ultra Extreme

Terry, another issue that may be confusing people is the fact that there are "Extreme" Hypos listed for sale that are not even close to being Extreme Hypos. The other issue is that there are different grades of them for sure. Take this pic for example. The male is a very light Extreme, while the female has red eyes, but is not nearly as light. I have seen some advertised as low grade Extremes. Maybe we need a rating system like A,B and C grade Extremes.

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Thanks!

Joe Exposito
Thoroughbred Exotics, LLC
www.thoroughbredexotics.com

Terry,....

>>> "They ask is it a hypo or is it an extreme?"

LOL!!!, yeah,....I know what ya mean!, and also all the "shades" of gray that hypos come in, can be pretty confusing to folks that really aren't "in the know" about them. Not only that,...but also what they can't see as well!

I whole-heartedly agree that your animal is VERY exceptional, and deserves a name that is far removed from others that have been used, or are still being used in the hobby. I'm not so sure however that the great unique name your trying to come up with to apply to your animal should have the name "ultra" anywhere in it's title AT ALL!. Don't get me wrong, it's a fabulous name, is very descriptive, simple, and isn't confusing,........but I think it would be very confusing to many because of the way it was used to describe some animals in the past that fell just short of being "extreme". If it was NEVER used to describe some of these other exceptional looking lighter than normal hypos, It would be a FANTASTIC name, but using it now, after it's been thrown around for a while with these other animals, would probably tend to be very confusing and frustrating. It really is too bad, because I like the name a lot, and if I and others never heard it applied to other types, it would be a superb name.

You really need to set it far apart from other descriptive words that have been tossed around before.

Just as an example, maybe something like "Stellar Hypo",...meaning astronomical, of the very best, excellent. Or even maybe "Co-Dom" Hypo......Anyway, you get the picture and understand what I mean here.

I think if I heard the term "Ultra Extreme", or anything similar to it being used, I'd always have to reply in confusion,...."you mean Terry M's animal, or the OTHER ultras?".

I think after this year, you, Shannon, Joe, and a few others will be able to compare notes, and settle some more of the questions regarding the genetics of yours as well. In any case, just my opinion, and some ideas you might want to think about.

BTW, thanks for the compliment on the little girl I had posted, I think she's pretty sweet as well.

later, Terry!.....~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Thank you Doug ,I completely understand what you are saying about the word ultra.I might do something sinple like
TMX Hypo ( Terry Maheuron Xtreme Hypo )
maybe the TMX Line would catch on
anyway I guess I got everyones head all mixed up !
thanks again

Terry M

Terry,....there ya go!,.."TMX Hypo" sounds fine to me!,....there's NO WAY that name could be misinterpreted, or confused with something else, that's for sure!..LOL!

Anyway,....good luck with everything, and we will all look forward to the offspring that you and a few others produce!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

what was wrong with your, Xtreme name?

-Rusty

Terry it seems to me that they are already becoming known as the Terry Maheuron line just as Mikes are know by his name and Terry D. by his name. I can understand if you really are hesitant to stick your name in front of them but if your the man, your the man. Anyone looking at one from this line sure wont confuse them with others. You could just go with TM extremes.
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Randy Whittington

What I'm saying just to make it clear is that anyone that's as into the hypos as everyone in this post is, that knows the different lines are going to call the ones from you the Terry Maheuron line. Just as when we are talking about the other lines we call them by the person who orininated the line.
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Randy Whittington

Randy,thanks for all your input ,I might just use TM-Xtreme or
TMX hypo
TMX ghost etc ... the TMX-Line
how is you season going ?

Terry M

I look forward to seeing what you hatch out of that line this year. That's definatly a interesting project.
I think I have eggs from 12 different species so far this year but no hondo eggs yet. I've got several girls gravid but as usual I'm late on the hondos. Keep us posted.
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Randy Whittington

Just Another Crazy Ass Honduran.......just some levity to those naming things before you really know whats going on. Personally I would have kept the generic name til the gene is proved out individually, not meaning to stir the stink.

Me no like Hondos. Boo Hoo
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Randy Whittington

I like hondos but jesus, the minutia. The need for a label,personalized, big letters, describing....a snake no one really knows the genetics of yet because no one has bothered to do a backcross to a normal one. I like the idea of knowing what the genetics are ALOT more than figuring out whose line its from or what name someone decided to name it.
What was nice about them has been replaced with the idea of making them as much like a cornsnake as possible(speed for morphs). Not that I dont like progress(I still like corns too), but I got off the Hondo express a few exits ago. I still like the difficult sh*t that up and dies on you for no apparant reason; where sometimes you have to force feed babies for 2 YEARS before they decide they want to live,etc. We all like to be different.