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More weird eggs to talk about woo hoo!

Nokturnel Tom May 28, 2008 04:28 PM

OK, Let me begin by saying I used to worry like an old lady over every little thing and in the end it just doesn't help. When I first started breeding snakes I actually did the typical "help, my snake is eggbound!" post. Plenty of others we have seen on here anually.
The snake that laid these eggs is by far one the most important out of clutches from 2008. She laid at least 10 good eggs. I saw a few lumps WAY inside her not far past her midsection. I did not attempt to move them closer to her vent, matter of fact I didn't even leave the nest box in. A day or two later it looked like a second ovulation. Regardless of seeing or thinking I saw something like that I put them male back in after I fed her. He chased her around but I did not see them lock up, I had other things to do. Later one an infertile egg popped out with this extra thingy on, sleeved halfway over it like a.......well I don't wanna use the analogy that comes to mind so we'll say a glove over a hand. Here's a pic though by the time I got to the camera hours later it had dried up.


It seems as if there was another ova/ovum that was in the process of being shelled that simply did not complete the mission. Why? I don't know or care....I would just say things like this happen from time to time.
Two days later, two more popped out.
I had two females last year that may have had thier clutches spoil inside the females from overfeeding, just a guess....feeding tons of rodents here has always worked just fine. Two of those snakes were fed less this season and laid good clutches but the size was almost half of the previous seasons slugs. The snake that dropped the weird eggs was also not fed quite as much as my usual regiment. Maybe in this case the snake did NOT receive enough food?
Someone I have a lot of respect for once reminded me that producing snakes can be easy as pie but sometimes it is the opposite and things will just not work out. You just never know. This particular project took 4 years to get off the ground. They are the only two snakes with these particular genetics that I know of in existance. The old/beginner me would have panicked...but I am glad I didn't. My guess is lots of people unintentionally torment their snakes in this condition by contantly fooling with them. I think people should also consider simply covering the cage and leaving the snake alone checking on them every 12 hours before panic sets in. It seems most people have no intention of taking a snake to the vet anyway.... they try all these DIY tricks they read about. Again, this may do more harm than good, and of course sometimes it works too. I guess what I am saying is it doesn't hurt to give the snake a chance to finish what it started alone on its own.
yup
Tom Stevens

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TomsSnakes.com

Replies (13)

Beaker30 May 28, 2008 04:49 PM

Good post Tom. Too much woryy doesnt do anyone any good...you or the snake.
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God Bless Evolution.

FunkyRes May 28, 2008 04:49 PM

In the case of my girl - there was no movement of the eggs for four days after she layed her clutch, she was not active and refusing food (she did eat while gravid, even taking an adult mouse the day of her prelay shed) and she looked extremely emaciated.

I understand that often they will work it out themselves, but they don't always do so, and they were not moving. Knowing when to help and when not to help isn't always easy - but I'm confident taking my girl to the vet was the best course of action even though she ended up not making it anyway.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

Nokturnel Tom May 28, 2008 04:58 PM

You my friend took the snake to the vet. And I think that says a lot about the type of keeper you are.
Most people do not and I have heard several stories about people who'd sooner attempt to kill the snake to get the eggs out sooner than try and save the life of the snake itself....which is awful but true.
I understand sometimes intervention is neccesary, but many people panic and make a lousy decision...in my opinion anyway
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

jyohe May 28, 2008 05:56 PM

I took an eggbound female to the vet once....she died that night from shock.......he did everything I told him not to and told him what to do..........said what he did I could have done at home and didn't want to kill her.....he did it anyways.....

.......

first thing after panic........aspirate,,,,then wait again......

.....
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......

Nokturnel Tom May 29, 2008 12:50 PM

Vets are not always going to be able to solve your snakes problems. Sometimes you can justify feeling shafted as it is obvious they have no clue.
I do think that most people don't chose a vet due to money factors and that is a bummer.
I have spent good money at a vet before and still watched the snake perish. Thankfully things here have been great and I have visited a vet maybe 4 times in 9 years. Not bad considering I now have no less than 150 snakes here and at times several hundred more.
I bought a microscope and do fecal exams here in the snake room. I learned from a 10 dollar book and ended up finding parasites in a sample that my vet told me was clean 4 times. Good herp vets are just not easy to find.
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

daveb May 29, 2008 06:35 PM

///Good herp vets are just not easy to find.

I agree, but sometimes a vet with good vet techs is more important as the techs often do the fecal floats, slide preps, et cetera which your vet bases his diagnosis on. parasites may not show on every sample, but your $10 lab orientation may be more valuable than his tech's ability to prep slides/floats, hahaha. kind of like human docs, they can only be as accurate on some things as the info the lab gives them. if you get a bad report, definitely get a second opinion and a different lab!!!

along with incubation (hahaha) I love microbiology. let me know the specs on your scope. I may have to get back into that.

daveb
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vote in '08
chris cornell for van halen lead singer...

shannon brown May 28, 2008 05:59 PM

Tom, I have seen a few "Trojan" eggs in my day. I have learned also to just let nature take its course when I get eggbound girls.I have found that it really doesn't matter what you do they live or die about the same % if you palpate (I don't anymmore),aspirate (only once in a great while now)or leave alone (pretty much all the time now).

Anyway, if they are strong girls they will get them out sooner or later.

L8r Shannon

FunkyRes May 28, 2008 06:20 PM

Yes - I have 3 young girls that I will probably breed for the first time next year, a late '06 Cal King, '06 MBK, and an '07 Corn (not positive I'll breed her but she's putting on size very fast, and the male corn already wants to mate her, so I think she'll be ready next year).

The MBK is one of those snobby feeders who only eats live - she feels very strong. The Cal King and the Corn do not feel as strong, so I'm making a point of handling them daily (except after they feed) just to make sure they get some exercise - and if I don't feel noticeable improvement by August, I will start feeding them live and see if that improves their muscle tone.

I'm handling the MBK as well - but she's definitely a stronger girl, I think a large part of it is that she has to chase the mouse around the tub and constrict it.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

antelope May 29, 2008 12:55 AM

I think you will have stronger snakes (muscle tone) by feeding live. I feed all live and have some w.c. lizard eaters turn mousers easily on live pinks and fuzzies. Just my op.
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Todd Hughes

Bluerosy May 29, 2008 09:43 AM

only two snakes with these particular genetics that I know of in existance

Hmmm. Can I take a guess...
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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!

Nokturnel Tom May 29, 2008 10:36 AM

.
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TomsSnakes.com

Tony d May 30, 2008 12:31 PM

Would I be able to guess?

Nokturnel Tom May 30, 2008 02:22 PM

.
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TomsSnakes.com

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