Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Some time ago, I read a discussion about cold brumation (55 degrees) versus cool brumation (70 degrees) for cornsnakes.
At least one person said that the female would likely produce less follicles if put into warmer brumation.

Well, I did the 70 degree brumation.
Here is all the info and results:

2004 Caramel Cornsnakes
70 degree room temp
45 days during January, 2008 into February, 2008
Lights: 8 hours ON, 16 hours OFF

Female Shed 3/24/08
Paired up 4 times starting 3/28/08
Female Shed 4/15/08
Female Shed 5/20/08
Eggs Laid 5/28/08

She laid 25 good eggs and 1 slug.
Not bad for a 70 degree Brumation.

Brian
Colubrid Incubator

"Someone" didn't mention all the details of the pros and cons of warm brumations.

If you know the weather in South Florida, it's easy to see that corns do not require a cold brumation. In fact, some corns go years in the wild without brumating, AND people will tell you about their captive corns that successfullly breed every year without brumation. I think what should have been said about a 70F brumation is that it's not as safe as a 55F brumation. 55F is sufficiently cold to sufficiently retard the growth of many internal parasites. At 70F, your snake obviously has no appetite, but is warm enough to burn more calories than their 55F brumating counterparts. Hence, their immune system can be negatively impacted. Enough to be a problem? Probably not, but if a person chooses to brumate above 65F, a shorter brumation period is advised.

I have brumated in the 70sF and have bred snake successfully with no brumation at all. In most of those cases, fertility was average to slightly above average. Brumation temperature and duration are not as important to fertility as the health, weight, and vitality of the female. Hence, a female corn that has sufficient fat stores after a 70F brumation should be just as fertile as one that brumated below 60F. If there is a generally higher fertility rate in cold-brumated corns over warm-brumated ones, it would probably be because cold-brumated animals generally lose less weight than those brumated at warmer temps.

Congratulations on your highly fertile production. I just wanted folks to know that brumation in captivity is quite different from brumation in the wild, and therefore colder captive brumations are advised, when possible. Brumation does not directly influence the fertility rate of the female.

Don
South Mountain Reptiles

"55F is sufficiently cold to sufficiently retard the growth of many internal parasites. At 70F, your snake obviously has no appetite, but is warm enough to burn more calories than their 55F brumating counterparts. "

Don,
You're right (the above quote) and that's why I only held them at 70 degrees for 45 days.
I appreciate your reply - great information!!

Brian

You're right (the above quote) and that's why I only held them at 70 degrees for 45 days.
I appreciate your reply - great information!!

I CAUGHT THAT, BRIAN, AND SHOULD HAVE MENTIONED YOU DID THE RIGHT THING WITH A SHORTER DURATION.

MANY CORN KEEPERS OUT THERE FLAT-OUT DO NOT HAVE ANYPLACE IN THEIR HOMES/APARTMENTS TO ACHIEVE A CONSISTENTLY SAFE TEMP BELOW 65F. THE MAIN POINTS I WANTED TO MAKE ARE
THAT YOU WERE MISINFORMED ABOUT WARM BRUMATIONS REDUCING FERTILITY AND
WARMER BRUMATIONS SHOULD HAVE SHORTER DURATIONS.

CONGRATS AGAIN ON YOUR GREAT SUCCESS.

DON
South Mountain Reptiles

THE MAIN POINTS I WANTED TO MAKE ARE
THAT YOU WERE MISINFORMED ABOUT WARM BRUMATIONS REDUCING FERTILITY AND
WARMER BRUMATIONS SHOULD HAVE SHORTER DURATIONS.

I should have split the above thoughts Vs putting a negative and positive in the same sentence.

information = warm brumations don't always result in low fertility

information = always reduce duration of warm brumations
South Mountain Reptiles

I actually keep my corns in the reptile room so the temp stays the same as the house75-80 my breed later in the season but I do get consistant clutches from the females I have bred the last three seasons. This years going to be interesting I have added 2 new males and 2 new females. im excited to see what Im gonna get.
Tom

What effect, if any, do brumation temp ranges have on male fertility?

Year after year, I breed males that were not brumated, and they were seemingly unaffected. In other words, I have found it's much more important for females to brumate than males. As it is with everything, there will (of course) be exceptions to all general rules. If someone said I could brumate either males OR females (but not both), I'd choose to brumate the females. I don't think my production would be much different in that scenario, than if I HAD brumated the males.
South Mountain Reptiles

Don,
I've got years of experience in keeping snakes but only a few years of breeding experience. I know that brumation, especially of the female, is widely accepted and advocated as a bit of a rest period since their bodies endure so much in the breeding process. This is applied to many lizards as well as snakes.

With Burmese Pythons, in particular, it seems to be common belief that most infertility issues stem from the male, usually due to poor health.

What is the most common infertility issue with corn snakes?

Just to clarify, I'm not questioning brumation, by any means. I'm just curious as to what the most common infertility issue is with corn snakes.

I'm just an ol' dog tryin' to learn a few new tricks. Ha!

Take care!
Mike
(HH)
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

...issue?

TWO STIMULI ARE MOST RESPONSIBLE FOR INFERTILITY IN CORNS, BUT WHICH IS NUMBER ONE AND NUMBER TWO IS DEBATABLE.

1. OVERHEATING MALES (KILLING SPERM)
2. EXHAUSTING SPERM STORES IN MALES (BREEDING THEM TOO MANY TIMES)

FEMALES ARE RELATIVELY INNOCENT OF INFERTILITY (GENERALLY SPEAKING). OF COURSE, THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS.
South Mountain Reptiles

n/p
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

.....corns can and will breed at any temp....one year I did well without any brumation just light differences......and other years I brumate them all to have a break......it went right and it went wrong both ways for me at least a few times each............LOL

stuff can and will go wrong if you brumate or not......

......good batch....thank her......she was fed well and had good genetics......

do not make her fat..........she will blow out 25 and more every year now........

good luck......
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......

The problem with brumating in the danger zone (i.e., between 65-75F) is that the immune system is severely depressed, while bacteria growth isn't. This means it is more dangerous for the snake to be within that range than to be a little above it or a little below it. Of course, we are referring to mean body temperature and not just the daily high, daily low, or a temperature that fluctuates into that range once or twice.

KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven
Pituophis.net