Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just picked this up at a local pet store as a BCC, What do you think?

My opinion Boa constrictor longicauda
Very nice looking animal...

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Josh Ketchum
Sunshine Boas

I'm not Gus or Vin. It just popped at me like it
has a touch of Amarali in it.How big and old is it ?
. . . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I'm guessing an 06. She is about four feet. Very healthy. I normally don't buy from pet stores, but look at her.....I couln't pass up!

Some Longicauda in her like Josh said seems like a good
possibilty as well.Very nice looking boa that's forsure.
. . . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

I would do a scale count before representing it as a Longicauda (seen several dark mexican boas or color changed nics people where claiming as longicauda) but that boa looks like a good example of a harding line Longicauda. given that few none local boa people (or average kingsnake users) have ever seen a picture or a live longicauda (several of the boa books you see at pet stores have a picture of a meade line longicauda labled as a Argentine) what most like happened is the pet store got it and was told it's a Peruvian long tailed or black tailed boa and the help pet store clerk not knowing better said to him self peruvain boas are BCC not knowing there are BCL and BCO (ortoni) in peru. never the less great find, they stay small, are more active then most other boas (like to climb and just generally roam around) befar my favorite boas to work with. they don't have the flashy colors of BCC or even BCI but they grow on you. they start ugly and get better as they age. here is a old pic of my first BCL.

Will do. and thanks!

It resembles a Peruvian Longi to me too.
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Snake room janitor

No doubt that is clearly a very nice Harding line Longicauda.
Dont see anything there but Longicauda.We have several 06's and their just reaching 36"

I would have bought her too

Nice find for a Local pet shop, looks to be a BCL.

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Brandon Nixon

I don't want to speak for Gus or Vin, but if I were them, you'd NEVER see me take a stab at the locality of a random animal posted on here. Why??? Because they have HUUUUGE reputations to protect and some integrades/crosses can have little to no resemblance to one of the parents. The problem then becomes if the person who posted the animal decides to sell, or breed, or even repost that animal on a forum and states that it is definitely locality "XYZ" because Gus or Vin said so and it turns out not to be, that's Gus or Vin's reputation down the drain, not the owner of the animal.
You can also imagine that the potential exists for someone with an animal that definitely is a cross (and the owner knows so for sure) but looks like a pure locality animal (which would fetch more money) could post an animal under the false premise that they just purchased it and didn't know the locality and end up using Gus or Vin's statement as a marketing tool to be dishonest.
The rest of us forum users can guess all day long and it's no big deal if we're wrong. We don't run a business based on our reputations and if we're wrong, we can just say we're sorry and it was merely a guess. I could guess that it's a Sonoran X Argentine and since I know little about each locality, and even less about what a cross of the two would look like, I couldn't be blamed for being wrong, ya know?
Having said that, it looks like a Longi , but who knows what's in the woodpile. I, as someone who values locality animals, would be hesitant to breed that animal to anything, but I would be happy to keep it as a pet, it's beautiful and should only get better. As a buyer of locality animals (as the majority of Longicauda enthusiasts are) I would probably NEVER buy the offspring of that animal because the bloodline is literally impossible to trace. So my recommendation is never to breed that animal and just enjoy it for what it is, a petshop boa.
Good luck!
jb
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Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

Couldn't that be said for 98% of the boas brought in from Central/South america each year?

You are 110% CORRECT!
No such thing as viable/valid locale paperwork on the Central American BCI variants.Exceptions given for the farmed stock,but that too is questionable with some strains.

he should advertise it and all offspring as absolutely 100% BCL because the chance exists that other animals in other stores (including reputable stores) are mislabeled by unscrupulous employees.

You're right, there's NO WAY to know with 100% certainty that an animal that's being sold from a store that imported it from a country is in fact, from that country. But we go with the best information we have, and it's a commonly accepted practice.

My statements were in regards to an animal that looks like an animal from a very specific area of South America, with a very distinct look to it. And my thoughts were pretty clear (IMO) that with an animal presumably from a population like that, the buyers are generally looking for a viable history so that they may trace the lineage (hence: "harding line", etc..). I don't have any interest in that locality so my recommendations were made based on the very real possibility that if the owner bred it, they would have a VERY hard time selling the offspring to anyone who would be interested in them, due to their high demands with regards to lineage. More than likely, the babies would end up in a pet store and sold as Peruvian BCC to unknowing customers who may eventually (or even currently, at the time) value locality information but they lack the education to know better.

IMO, a society can be judged by how it treats its members who are the least advantaged. If you were to see "boa hobbyists" as a "society", and as a society if we were to assume the "least advantaged" (or newbies) have the knowledge to know better when it comes to purchasing an animal that's misrepresented, we're being irresponsible, and we can do better. And we should do better.

I think you and I probably agree (at least in theory) that labels are too easily thrown around. Everyone always wants to belong, it's fashionable. Example, if you see a dog and you start talking to the owner, what's the FIRST thing everyone asks? "What is it?" Even if the owner answers that it's a mix of X, Y, and Z, all participants in the conversation feel at ease because THE DOG NOW HAS A LABEL! It fits into a category and that makes us comfortable. YAAAAY! Heaven forbid you tell them that you don't know, they'll attach a label for you! "oh, I think it's an _____, and it could be crossed with ____". People feel the need to attach a label.

That need is also why you see posts on here every week asking about the "locality" of a certain posted animal. The owner needs to be able to identify with a certain group so they can be included. I felt the best label was a petshop boa, because that's as far as the lineage could be traced with accuracy, especially given the appearance of the animal (clearly not a peruvian BCC).

So, again, I think labels are too often tossed around and it's not always necessary. But there are times when it's generally accepted to be safe, and accurate, like labeling an imported animal that's coming out of a box stamped "Guyana" as being an animal from Guyana. There's no need to be overly broad and say it's a "Guyana shield" animal (which ironically is another label).

Sometimes I feel like you just like to instigate things because you have nothing better to do. There are people who are genuinely interested in these animals and knowing all they can about them and you coming here and stirring things up just for kicks is truly a disservice. I have no problem with contributions that go against the grain (I've made them myself, recently), if they are relevant, factual, and logical. The problem is that most of the arguments you raise don't satisfy that criteria.

Hey... anyone seen my soapbox? Oh.. it was under me, couldn't see it!
jb
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Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

how you really fell. I just wish we could get you to come out of your shell. Oh...and I wish more people would let me know what I should like in a BCC.

Seriously - great post.

Kevin

maybe some day... =)

Keep your eye out for those boas everyone else likes so you can buy them and tell yourself you like 'em! lol
jb
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Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

Hope that was not directed to me. I just saw this boa and fell in love. It was labeled Peruvian bcc and it clearly was not so i thought i would ask. THanks for all the response. Either way not a bad purchase in my eyes...

oh that was absolutely not directed at you. Sorry if it came off that way. That's one of the problems with forums, many things can get misinterpreted.

I think you've got a beautiful boa and I hope you enjoy it!
jb
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Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

Thank you. And i will Not bad for a hundred bucks....

I'm glad you found this boa and enjoy it. I'm also happy
you posed the question of what anyone thinks it is/was.
Makes for an enjoyable few posts to read what people
classify certain Boas as.
. . . . . . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz

>>
>>I think you've got a beautiful boa and I hope you enjoy it!
>>jb

So it's a beautiful boa, one that the lucky owner found for $100, and it will provide the owner many years of enjoyment, but at the same time it's just a "pet shop" boa that should never be bred???

Thanks,
Ed

That snake looks to be total longicauda. That's as much as can be told from a picture. If the criteria that separates longicauda from other types of constrictor has any genuine taxonomic value then the animal in question can be checked to see if it falls with in these guidelines to remove all doubt.

Outside of total insecurity, I don't see how anyone could be fearful of having their reputation damaged by offering an educated guess.

Ernie Eison
Wstwoodreptiles.com

Taking things a bit too literally? FYI - I'd buy offspring produced by that animal, as it meets all characteristics I've seen in the different lines of captive Longicauda. Take that for what it is. What would you call this one?

whatever the owner told me it was, if I trusted them and could trust their story behind it.
jb
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Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

This is exactly how the majority of captive boa are documented.By word of mouth,there isn't a legit document on any of the imports as far back as one would want to look.
Being a recognized authority,breeder or whatever doesn't bring anymore truth/proof of legit locale based on documentation and or a tall tale from some fictitious adventure.

Yet the majority never bother to invest any effort towards verification,they just take the "story" and go with it.
People that speak out against the lies are shunned as trouble makers for not allowing the scam(s)to run without speaking out against the perpetuation of dishonesty.I can see why people struggle with it,it gets in their pockets!The value of the animal(s) degrades rapidly once the exclusive locale balloon is popped.

Pretty sad to understand the old days of smuggling afforded a more reliable means of integrity then the current method of legalized smuggling which is currently labeled as "Importation" and or Captive Reproduction.

Drop a few calls and acouple hundred US greenbacks and you too
can claim the spotlight on the US boa scene,good ole Jose' will put what you want on your CITIES paperwork.
Cut a few deals with your buds in the boa biz and your all set to rake in the dough from unsuspecting(trusting) customers,their verbal validation will ensure your investment succeeds.

Give thought to where this hobby would be if it weren't for the "Pet Shop" boa's of the last 30 years?

>>whatever the owner told me it was, if I trusted them and could trust their story behind it.
>>jb
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>>Jonathan Brady
>>*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

I have every intention of getting a male and breading her. I plan on doing some more research on it. Scape count ext. O i also found the guy that sold it to the store. I'm going to contact him tonight.

track the guy down and get all the info you can from him. I don't doubt he's a longicauda and the background info will go a looooong way in making the offspring marketable.
Best of luck!
jb
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Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

.