Reptile & Amphibian Forums

my salvator has been doing alot better in the past week. i have covered his cage and within 3 days he has been out basking,soaking,etc.. so a few days ago i put 3 goldfish in his water to maybe stimulate his appetite and wouldnt you know it he devoured them!! then yesterday i put in 2 fuzzies and he ate them as well, plus however many crickets were in there.

i also want to say thank you to everyone who posted to my question, i took alot from everyone.

p.s. i plan to move him into a much larger cage soon

thank you all

your progress is going to take a big fat dump if you continue to feed stuff like goldfish. figuratively speaking.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I was just trying to get him to start eating. And what's wrong with a goldfish every once and a while? Its enrichment plus exercise. As long as rodents and bugs are the staple I dont see any harm

goldfish are very fatty and greasy and generally the least recommended amoung feeder fish.
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1.0.0 YBS
1.3.0 RES
1.0.0 red belly cooter
1.0.0 Fire belly toad
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor
0.1.0 Leopard Gecko
cats, dog, ferret, rats, mice and hamsters

I was just trying to get him to start eating. And what's wrong with a goldfish every once and a while? Its enrichment plus exercise. As long as rodents and bugs are the staple I dont see any harm

Having been in the same situation, with a sickly import that wouldn't eat, I can understand your thinking. I tried feeding mine stuff I would never feed as a staple, but like you, wanted to give him a 'jump start'. I'm glad to hear he's eating at least! I don't know why goldfish are so bad for monitors, but I read they're loaded with parasites, so maybe that's it? If so, I'd think it would be bad practice to even feed them once in a while. There have to be 'good' fish you can feed water monitors and I would think they would be a good staple along with rodents/birds/insects/.

Susan.

goldfish???? man ive read to much

sorry to butt in here but arent nile monitors primarily fish eaters in the wild. arent their teeth designed for catching fish. forgot what kind of monitor the origional poster has, but there has to be a fish you can feed an animal that eats alot of fish? dont most monitors eat fish(or anything they can get their teeth on for that manner)?? idk, but its just a question i have??? if gold fish arent good, then what is a good feeder fish? so yeah sorry to hijack this post a little, but i think well help this owner out if we clear this up... what are good feeder fish?
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Guy LoPresti

collared lizards
Lizzy
Stevie II
2 firebelly toads
ceasar "caligula" the
baby emperor scorpion
( if you know what caligula means you'll get it)
dogs
groucho
charles
bugs

thanks to the people who are helpful,

if you guys are frowning on a couple goldfish then i feel bad for you. what the hell do you think monitors eat in the wild????? yea sure they eat strictly rodents and crickets. you must be naive. sure they are whats best for the animal but its good to have a little diversity in their diet, and their is much worse that can be fed. and when a monitor needs to gain weight and doesnt eat EXACTLY what you want then you have to make substitutions. think about it people.

again thank you to the people who had positive and useful comments.

I'm not taking any sides here or trying to promote one idea over another, I just want to make sure that you don't sell yourself short by not considering ALL advice or suggestions offered. I just want to encourage you (and everyone else) to keep an open mind, that's all.

There are many here with plenty more experience than I have, but I may not always agree with everything any one person says. I still have "my own, personal, thoughts". Personally, I don't want everyone to agree with me on everything because I know that I'm far from perfect. Therefore, I welcome debate, disagreements, different opinions & experiences. From these things I'm able to come to my own conclusions after careful consideration and sometimes exploration, experimenting.

It's hard sometimes not to take things personal, it's natural for most of us to do sometimes. Sometimes things aren't said quite the way we'd like them to be and we have a tendency to disregard the actual subject and focus on how it was presented.

Most of us have been in the same position you were in, concerned about getting a captive to eat something. Not everyone will say "Been there, done that" but might just state their opinion on the matter instead.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not arguing with you & I don't want to, but I would like to point out a few things for you to at least consider.

Yes, salvators may eat fish in the wild if given the chance, I don't know since I've never personally observed them in the wild. However, I doubt that the fish would be goldfish. My point is - if we're going to try to relate things to their native habits, the things need to be native. If they're not, then that's where conflicting opinions will come in.

Now, I don't know for sure if some people are against feeding fish or if it's "goldfish" they're against. I'm not taking any sides on that. On occasion, I have given one of my savannah monitors shiners purchased from a bait & tackle store that my gator killed and did not eat. Some people believe that goldfish, and maybe even shiners/minnows, are loaded with parasites and they feel that's why they shouldn't be used.

With all due respect to anyone/everyone I disagree with the "parasite" issue. If these fish were overloaded with bad parasites I believe it would show in their health. I think too much attention is given to parasites to where many healthy animals are needlessly subjected to internally harsh treatment, further endangering the animal's life by killing beneficial microbes. As for goldfish being fatty or whatever, I've no clue and can't say anything pro or con about it.

Diverse diets can be good or bad, depends on the quality of the diverse ingredients. I'm not aware of anyone that has successfully raised any species of monitors on a strictly fish diet. I know, you're not saying that anyone should or that you will, that's not my point. My point is that most of us have a tendency to stick with proven-positive results, and I'm not aware of any such results that include goldfish.

Personally, I don't condemn you for what you've done. Like "sdslancs" said, "...I can understand your thinking." I just wouldn't make a habit out of it, which I think could be some people's concern.

Please note the last word in that last paragraph, "concern". It's why most of us post here. We care about varanids. And obviously, you do to, or else you wouldn't be here. In that sense, we're all on the same page. This is probably my overall point, the reason for this reply. There is actually only one post, so far, in this thread that's not of use, and I don't feel a need to single it out. Of course, this post could be considered useless or non-helpful, but I hope that it does help to keep you in the game.

Take care!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

thank you HH I appreciate your comments. And I agree goldfish may not be the most ideal fish to feed but I seriously doubt that a couple to underweight varanid does more harm than good. Anyway thank you for using the forum for what its intended for

I know that krusty (or I think that jburokas is his name on this forum) nets his own fish from the waterway behind his house to feed his argus. If you could find a source of whole, raw fish, intended for human consumption (of good quality), that'd probably be great. But unless you live on the coast, you will probably not find such a source.

Cheers,
Ryan
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Please excuse my childish-sounding user name. Unless I created a new account, I can't change it.

I'm sure niles and salvatores and some others get fish in the wild, so if you want to substitute once in a while I don't see it as a problem. You WOULD be better off with something caught out of the lake or river than using gold fish though. They aren't the cleanest fish out there(just an orange carp after all ). Catch him a slew of perch or something.

Quig

hey ive got one better let the monitor fish for its own food,LOL!! would probably bring out some natural behavior, at the risk of losing the monitor in the pond!! you probably wouldnt fill up a large monitor on little three inch feeders, so yould probably have to get something bigger . why not not just go with fresh fish from the market?? does live or dead matter in this instance??
also on parasites in fish where do the parasites exist? what if you feed a gutted fish, would that eliminate parasites?
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Guy LoPresti

collared lizards
Lizzy
Stevie II
2 firebelly toads
ceasar "caligula" the
baby emperor scorpion
( if you know what caligula means you'll get it)
dogs
groucho
charles
bugs

As I said earlier goldfish are a bad choice due to fattiness ect. Want to feed fish, sure no problem. Minnows are good.(Rosies at most fish stores) Feeder guppies are good and really moost live bearers, swordtails, platties and mollies are good .

Cheapest way is to buy a few and breed them yourself.

My suggestion would be to buy Rosies (fat head minnows) iusually 8 to 10 for $1. they are small when you buy them, usually an inch, but they get like 3 inches. Id buy a bunch, put in a large rubbermaid with a filter, feed healthy and when they are bigger feed to your monitor.

Other suggestion would be larger fish from a seafood market, things than came in with the net but arent typically people food, bony or whatever(good calcium) and buy them.

Just DONT buy bait fish they too are generally full of parasites
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1.0.0 YBS
1.3.0 RES
1.0.0 red belly cooter
1.0.0 Fire belly toad
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor
0.1.0 Leopard Gecko
cats, dog, ferret, rats, mice and hamsters

thank you guys for the helpful and informative posts, I appreciate it

ive seen water monitors in the wild in indo eat garbage!!! i mean real stinking fermenting garbage,,, paper bags, plastic, human waste, paper plates etc. etc. so mayby u can try this next. it is also known that they will eat dead human bodies if given the chance, u have any graves near by??? im just joking around but robyan is 100% right with a fickle monitor like yours stick to the good stuff. wait till hes big and healthy to mix it up. your next post will be " all my monitor eats is goldfish"

Well, the problem with goldfish is that they're really high in thiaminase, and you end up with really nasty thiamine deficiencies. Monitors do eat fish in the wild, but they generally eat a diversity of fish, and most of those fish are not greasy, fatty fish like carp. I see no problem with feeding one of the more aquatic monitor species fish as a major part of their diet, but if you're going to do this, make sure that the fish you're offering aren't going to cause major vitamin deficiencies.

It has nothing to do with goldfish being "dirty." Even the cleanest goldfish is still a concern if it is used as a dietary staple.

According to what Ive read (in their native lands) the V. niloticus has the most broad encompassing diet of any African monitor lizard, in fact they are the species that most commonly is found preying on mammals, and larger prey items in that continent, they are opportunists.
I think the point behind the comments are to get the person to just use a good diet that works, fix the rest of their husbandry and worry about feeding "keeper entertainment food" when all else is fine, not to say that they arent already feeding them as an occasional food.

There is nothing wrong with goldfish every once in a while. But, its neither enrichment or exercise. Think about it, catching a fish in a tiny bowl is exercise, not. Or enrichment, not, its a friggin feeder goldfish(not known for being well cared for).

I am only thinking here, but the biggist problem with beginers is, they tend to have meaningless thoughts and priorities. No offense, but that is what experience IS, its learning what is important and what IS meaningful. Usually through doing the same beginer things and working PAST THEM.

For instance, beginers talk about hides and basking spots. As if they are a part that you can install. Thats wrong, a hide is were a monitor chooses to hide for its own reasons of needs. And those reasons and needs are constantly changing. So they actually need to make their own hides depending on what their current need is. They make hides to control their temps and humidity and to FEEL safe, a place to escape the dangers of the world. I mention that because if you can see them in a hide, then they are NOT safe and do not feel safe.

Yet beginers think all you need is a half log and all is well, you have done your part. WRONG. YOU HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING.

Which leads back to the goldfish in a bowl. A Nile is a monitor that swims in RIVERS and catches its prey that are not in bowls. They also spend hours upon hours digging and redigging. And can run two, three, four hundred yards(meters)quickly if needed.

Anyway, I am glad something said here, has helped. So I say, keep listening and keep asking questions. For instance, you should of asked Robyn why goldfish are not recomended, instead of defending what you did. Your defense was poor, check and see if Robyns reasons are good or not. Cheers

I never said that I was using goldfish as a staple I would never do that. The staples are rodents and bugs. But a treat every once and a while is that wrong?? And I dont understand how it is not enrichment, enrichment is something that stimulates their brains. And having to swim, yes swim( his bowl is plenty big enough for him to swim) in is absolutely enrichment.

Just curious on where the Nile monitor and the hide spot comments came from?

FR, I greatly appreciate your comments as well as robyns, so I'll ask. Why are goldfish so terrible? Is it all feeder fish? What do you recommend? Thank you

stick with a proven, nutritious, economical diet. period.

who is the treat for? the monitor? no. it is for you. the monitor will thrive on a diet of rodents and feeder insects. it will be plenty "happy". you have already said that goldfish are "less than", so why feed them? why not feed the monitor scrambled eggs covered in chocolate syrup? it is a treat, right?

is it about you? or is it about the monitor?

you are anthropomorphising with the monitor. treats are for kids, silly rabbit.

still, if you insist on feeding fish, why go with the dirtiest fish available?

you want to give yourself the best chance of success. not dig a hole that you then have to get out of.

i can't recommend a type of fish to feed, because in my strategy for success, they don't play a part. i wouldn't recommend feeding something that i wouldn't feed myself.

best of luck. sorry if tender feelings got hurt, but we are talking about monitors, not holding hands. it is nothing personal, you shouldn't take husbandry discussion that way, as that is not what it is about.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Think about this, the word "treat" is about you, not about your monitor. If you feed prey items that are "less then" its not a treat. Your actually taking something away.

Rodents and insects, are Proven to contain all they need, and as a matter of FACT, rodents have supported one of my monitors to 60 clutches. Thats good support.

What has goldfish supported. Can you find anyone that has raised any type monitor on goldfish alone? Or had any decent success with goldfish? So all your going by is your monitor ate them and your calling them a treat.

Now consider this, 90% or more of the monitors on this forum, will and have died quickly. The question of why becomes important. Those that have their monitors die young, tend to mention such things as treats and UV, and suppliments and hides, but yet their monitors fail.

Yet, I go around saying those things are not important and my monitors grow like weeds and breed like mice, reliable and often.

I actually do not understand why people have so many problems. But I do hear their words. And the words like treat, and soaking, and the like, seem to be connected to those whos monitors die young without progress.

I wish it was not that way, I wish we argued like cats and dogs over different degrees of success. Not fighting to get folks to allow their animals to live.

So, I can only think of getting people to attempt to do what I have done to allow my monitors to be successful.

If you showed a history of success, I would not care what you fed them. Until then, you may consider to feed what has supported life events, like a decent ability to grow up.

Not to beat this to death, but even when people show a breakdown of benefitual ingredients of a prey item. I could careless, I go by what results come from eating a certain prey item.

As boring as it may sound, a diet of solely mice that allows a monitor to achieve life events is much much much better then a diet what includes treats that do not result in allowing a individual monitor to achieve life events.

The truth is, in many cases its not even the food item thats the problem, its other conditions. So, why not feed it a known successful prey item, and get on with the rest and figure out what else your monitor needs. Cheers

Thank you frank

do you currently keep any waters??? If so would it be possible to get a pic or 2 of their enclosures??

Thank you
Kevin