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I have a some corns found within a few hundred yards of each other that I may breed in the future. If I do, I would like to release the babies in the area the parents were found. Anyone have opinions about pros / cons of doing this? I posted a similar question on the ratsnake board linked below.

Regards,
WK

Let 'em go???

i personally wouldnt do it. in a majority of places its illegal... i'm sure other people will voice their opinions too.... for example if you have mites(which i'm sure you dont) the offspring you let go may get the wild animals infected. but thats only 1 reason...
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Ball Python, A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

Your animals could introduce exotic pathogens to the wild population-even if yours are not showing symptoms themselves.

It's illegal almost everywhere.

It would be yet another example of herper irresponsibility for those who are trying to outlaw our hobby to point to.

It would not be of any real benefit to the wild population-a habitat has the room and resources for a certain number of corns-adding more just adds surplus and competition for the residents.

Overall, it's just the wrong thing to do. And the future of our hobby depends on each of us doing the RIGHT thing.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

.......just asking.......

what pathogens,viruses,bacterias,or whatever can / will a hatchling have if they just emerged from the egg??......

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Whatever may be lurking in the hatching medium, possibly transmitted from your hands or those little flies or whatever.

The fungus that is devestating frogs through much of the world probably originated in South Africa, the African Clawed Frog is immune to it and can carry it - and was heavily used for cheap pregnancy tests worldwide - and we didn't even know about the fungus until after frog populations started vanishing.

Just one example of the devestation that can result.

When a local population has evolved without a particular disease present, it has no reason to have developed natural defenses to the disease, and the result can be devestating.

That's why release of CB animals or re-release of wild animals should only be done by qualified scientists, and then only if the local population is not viable, and then only if the cause for decline of local population has been identified and corrected.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

Please don't do it! So many people are trying to outlaw our hobby. The biggest thing they harp on that gets legislature listening is herps being released. Please don't give them any more ammo.
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1.2 Ghost Corns, Beetlejuice, Casper and Spooky
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2.0 Tabby Cats, Daddycat and his son Brat
0.1 Australian Shepherd, Angel

Gypsy

To my knowledge, all laws regarding releasing of reptiles are geared towards invasive species, not locale animals. I may be wrong...shrug?

I am mixed on this subject myself, I can see if a collection has something that could be introduced into the wild, it can be done easily even with hatchlings. Snake has something, then a small fly moves from one cage to the next and viola, it spread the problem. That said, isn't it that easy to spread to native animals WITHOUT ever releasing anmials? Surely we do not believe we are able to contain all flys and such in our snake building or rooms and these get out into native areas. True the area is more wide and the problem would be harded to spread versus releasing, but it is possible.

dc

D:
Now that corn, to me, shows a greenish background coloration. Much more so than the male I showed you the other day. Is that one of your locality male Jaspers? Nice one. Wasil

That is a locality male from the Black Mnt. range in NC (my grandmother's land) Hopefully you kept that male to breed with the female from your yard.

thanks
dc

Not sure it's male because I haven't probed it, but the tail looks sort of "male-ish". I wasn't planning on breeding this one to that female even if it's male because of the banded thing we talked about. -W

I appreciate the comments. Interesting. I heard about the incident involving disease spread in desert torts from captive released animals but wasn't aware of the frog fungus. Are there any reports of wild snake or lizard populations being similarly affected (like in Florida, with all the released exotics)?

Regards,
WK

the latest reptiles magazine has a huge story about the frogs going to an almost "extinct" status. its a very good read and very sad too.... it made me make a small frog pond in my back yard for the tree frogs who live here in the richmond, va area. i know everytime there is a big storm, i get these lil grey treefrogs.... and i hope to save them.... i'm the only person in my neighborhood who hasnt cut down all the trees in their yard.
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Ball Python, A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

Thanks Kin. I haven't read Reptiles in a while, but may look up that issue with the interesting frog article. I'm like you, I've got some trees and plan to leave them.
Regards,
Wasil

>>I have a some corns found within a few hundred yards of each other that I may breed in the future. If I do, I would like to release the babies in the area the parents were found. Anyone have opinions about pros / cons of doing this? I posted a similar question on the ratsnake board linked below.
>>
>>Regards,
>>WK
>>
>>

I don't practice releasing back into the wild... but I will say this.....If it was so devistating to wild populations why are there still seemingly good numbers of corn snakes around the okeetee hunt club? Every time you turn around some has wild caught Jasper County or wild caught hunt club specimens.
There are several breeders who released hundreds of corn snakes around the area.
Didn't devistate that population.
Non native species....NEVER...corn snakes...not so clear of an answer in my view.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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Yeah, I would never release non-native, or even native non-locality. I was just wondering what evidence there was for releasing native locality snakes (right out the egg) being hazardous to the the wild pops.
Regards,
WK

>>Yeah, I would never release non-native, or even native non-locality. I was just wondering what evidence there was for releasing native locality snakes (right out the egg) being hazardous to the the wild pops.
>>Regards,
>>WK

You hear it all the time, and it can make sense, but I have never heard what the exact pathogens and diseases are supposed to be. No one has ever put a name to them. I’ve also never seen proof of releasing corn snakes into areas they are indigenous to, causing problems with existing populations. Remember we are talking native, non-invasive corn snakes here.
Does the pathogen and disease warning indicate that all of our captive snakes are harboring diseases and dangerous pathogens that they were somehow born immune to but wild species were not? It doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to me. I don’t know, maybe someone can be more specific and help cure my ignorance.
Just playing devil’s advocate here.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

I think the risk is low, but introduced pathogens have happened in the past, which is why many (but not all) states have banned it.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

>>I think the risk is low, but introduced pathogens have happened in the past, which is why many (but not all) states have banned it.
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see, that's what I mean....what pathogens?
still playing devil's advocate
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

See Funkyres' post above about Chytriid fungus in frogs. Also, some desert tortoise populations have been absolutely devestated by an exotic respiratory virus that was first spread by introduced captive animals. There are other examples in many other taxa.

In most cases this is not an arguable point-it's flat-out illegal, so don't do it. Unless you don't care whether or not our hobby has a future?
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

>>See Funkyres' post above about Chytriid fungus in frogs. Also, some desert tortoise populations have been absolutely devestated by an exotic respiratory virus that was first spread by introduced captive animals. There are other examples in many other taxa.
>>
>>In most cases this is not an arguable point-it's flat-out illegal, so don't do it. Unless you don't care whether or not our hobby has a future?
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CHILL OUT BRAD
I keep hearing this and that but I still have not seen one disease or pathogen, carried by corn snakes, named or identified.
If you read my posts you will see that I have not advocated the release of captive bred animals into the wild. Quite the opposite, I said I don't do it or recommend doing it. BUT
I have just been trying to get ONE person to name these pathogens and diseases that captive CORN SNAKES carry into the wild. The examples you stated are different species.
It would seem to me that the captive bred animals would be more succeptable to wild diseases and pathogens.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

hey jimmy.... hehehe its called corn-dont-do-it disease hahahahaha sorry.. i had to.... hehe.. sorry...

~kin
bwahahhaha cant stop laughing... hehe
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Ball Python, A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. Just thought I would ask the question and hopefully get some good info supporting the harm / no harm of releasing locality newborn snakes. As far as I can tell, there hasn't been documented harm from this practice. Since I was age 5 or so, I would catch and keep herps for a while, often letting them go at the end of the summer. I took vert zoology and herp courses in college that involved collecting specimens, keeping them in a lab for a while, and then returning them to their capture locations.

One question I had was whether or not vertical transmission (from parent to offspring) of diseases was prevalent in snakes. I just saw an article documenting vertical transmission of salmonella affects up to 65% of offspring from infected mothers.

Anyhow, it probably isn't worth the risk. I don't think it matters much, though. Over the past 3 years since I've lived in this area, development and habitat loss has been rampant with no end in sight. The question of releasing captive herps harming wild pops will eventually, I'm afraid, be irrelevant.

Jim-don't take it so personally. I wasn't targeting you personally.

Of course I nor anyone else cannot name which particular captive pathogen MIGHT be devastating to wild corn snakes. Do you think the tortoise keepers knew what it was that their tortoises were carrying when they let them go? Every animal-ourselves included-is more a community of organisms than an individual, and is host to millions of microscopic commensal/parasitic organisms. Any one could prove dangerous to a wild animal population that has never before been exposed.

Again, this is more than an opinion-in most states it's the law.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

>>Jim-don't take it so personally. I wasn't targeting you personally.
>>
>>Of course I nor anyone else cannot name which particular captive pathogen MIGHT be devastating to wild corn snakes. Do you think the tortoise keepers knew what it was that their tortoises were carrying when they let them go? Every animal-ourselves included-is more a community of organisms than an individual, and is host to millions of microscopic commensal/parasitic organisms. Any one could prove dangerous to a wild animal population that has never before been exposed.
>>
>>Again, this is more than an opinion-in most states it's the law.
>>-----

we're cool Brad I just thought you were getting pissed because I kept repeating my questions. I've just been playing devil's. Mainly because I just haven't seen evidence.
Doesn't mean it's not a danger just means there may not be enough evidence gathered yet. Could also mean the danger isn't as perceived. Could be this could be that.
I'm a little too cynical to accept that just because there are laws against certain things there are definite reasons for those laws. A lot of laws are born out of paranoia. So I question.
I don't advocate the breaking of those laws I just don't see a problem with questioning their validity.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

No problem Jim-I'm an HCU Charter member, so I'm all about questioning laws!
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....