Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am new to the modern age of snakes having worked with them 20 years ago. My question is: how can you tell the difference between a snake with orange and black markings and one that is an Okeetee? I see snakes in the classifieds that look like an Okeetee but are called everglades, North Carolina, or some other name. Please end my confusion.
Dave

>>> "My question is: how can you tell the difference between a snake with orange and black markings and one that is an Okeetee?"

Well, the term "Okeetee" corn originated from a gun club in Jasper County, South Carolina, which is a 50,000 acre estate that is known for it's population of richly colored locality cornsnakes that have a vivid orange background color, marked with deep, bold red blotches(saddles), that also tend to have wide dark black borders.

So therefore, the name is generally given to any cornsnakes with this certain "look", and doesn't have to necessarily COME from that location, although these locality specific animals are highly coveted and revered by cornsnake people in the hobby.

In many people's opinion, snake's that display this richly colored look, but do not actually come from the location in Jasper County, are usually best referred to as "Okeetee phase" cornsnakes, while the animals that are literally from this location, or are offspring from parents of Jasper County, are actually true locality Okeetee corns.

There has been much argument and debate for decades regarding this very thing in regards to the name, and what animals actually deserve the name, and which ones don't. This will no doubt be an ongoing thing for the rest of eternity,.....as a matter of fact, your post and mine will likely spawn a huge quagmire of debated posts as well!. It basically happens every time this topic comes up...LOL!

Anyway, in my opinion,....it's the "look" of the snake that constitutes the name Okeetee "PHASE", then if it's of actual locality lineage, it's termed a "locality Okeetee" animal.

hope that helps you to understand this thing a bit better.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Anyway, in my opinion,....it's the "look" of the snake that constitutes the name Okeetee "PHASE", then if it's of actual locality lineage, it's termed a "locality Okeetee" animal.

WELL SAID, DOUG.

IN MY NEXT BOOK, I'VE SHORTENED "OKEETEE PHASE" TO SIMPLY OKEETEE. IT'S ALREADY PRETTY MUCH UNDERSTOOD THAT WHEN SOMEONE SAYS "OKEETEE", WE ARE SELDOM DISAPPOINTED WHEN WE LAY EYES ON THE SNAKE TO WHICH THEY REFERRED. HENCE, THE TERM "OKEETEE LOCALITY" OR "LOCALITY OKEETEE" (WHICH HAS NO VISUAL STANDARD) SHALL BE USED TO DESCRIBED CORNS THAT DON'T NECESSARILY SATISFY THE VISUAL HOBBY STANDARD, BUT WERE VERIFIABLY CAPTURED IN JASPER COUNTY OR ARE DESCENDANTS OF CORNS CAPTURED THERE. NATURALLY, CORNS CAN BE BOTH. I HAVE MANY SUCH ANIMALS HERE. THEY ARE EXCEPTIONAL OKEETEES BY VISUAL HOBBY STANDARD and WERE CAUGHT NEAR THE HUNT CLUB IN JASPER COUNTY.

BTW, THE GENERALLY ACCEPTED STANDARD FOR OKEETEE IS A CORN THAT IS USUALLY STURDY IN BUILD (obviously not required), HAS RICHLY SATURATED AND CONTRASTING GROUND AND BLOTCH COLORS, OF WHICH THE BLOTCHES ARE BORDERED BY THICKER-THAN-NORMAL BLACK SCALE ZONES. Naturally, the richer the colors or thicker the borders, the more impressive (and sought after) the individual Okeetee. It should be obvious that having a locality morph of which there can be highly variable visual examples, is just asking for trouble. In other words, some of the corns I've seen caught ON hunt club property (locality Okeetees) had NO black scales around the markings. If someone tried to pass those off as Okeetees, they'd be laughed at, since one of the most obvious markers of an Okeetee is the thickness of the black margins. Since any Okeetee fetches higher prices than "normal" corns, imagine how many people trying to sell normal corns would say they were locality Okeetees, knowing there is no way to verify this. Buying locality snakes is a tricky business in today's slippery market. Hence, it's much safer to breed Okeetees that unquestionably satisfy the visual standard. No papers of origin are required and everyone walks away happy.

So, to more direcly respond to the thread question, to the layperson in the hobby, there is no clear distinction between the nominate form of corns and Okeetees. As Doug pointed out, not unlike Miami phase corns, good Okeetees can be captured in virtually every state where corns naturally occur. As it is with many things, the more corns you see, the easier it is to distinguish Miamis and Okeetees from nominate (wild type) corns. Like candy canes are to amel corns, Okeetees are a selectively bred version of nominate corns.
South Mountain Reptiles

hey, don

whens the next book coming out??? i bet its hard to write a book.... but just a question.... since the cornsnake manual didnt talk about the scale-less cornsnakes, are you gonna say anything about them?? thanks
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Ball Python, A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

The scaleless corn was publically revealed for the first time just a few weeks ago. Naturally, I'll list all known morphs in the book, but like buying a computer today, the book will be outdated the day it's printed.

When will it be out? Working on it all the time. As you imply, it's a daunting task, AND a work in progress.
South Mountain Reptiles

As a locality guy, I agree whole-heartedly with Doug.

-cole