Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is there anyone who specializes in Striped Kingsnakes? Also, is it rare to have the stripe go all the way down the back?
Dave

i dont specialize in them, but this is one of my kings.....

~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
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Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Ball Python, A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

That's a nice, clean stripe! I love the clarity of the white. How old is that snake? Are you planning on breeding it?

golly... i think i got him on 06?? hes still kinda small, but i dont over feed my critters.... i was hoping on breeding him to Skunky.... but she just wanted to eat him... i'll keep trying, but isnt he a looker!?!? i paid a pretty penny for him when he was just a lil worm... but he's one of my favs....
heres a pic of skunky when she was younger.... i really need to update my photos...

her mom was a hypo so shes starting to get brown undertones... she was slick black, just like dweezil (the stripe) but i got skunky as a freebie from a friend when i bought some corns off him... this was a thank you present and i had to get her a nice boyfriend.... now i'm hooked on kings
thanks for your kind words.... i'll try to update a photo soon...
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
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Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Ball Python, A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

You said, hes kinda small, then you said, you do not overfeed him. Wouldn't that mean hes underfed if hes kinda small.

Consider under proper conditions, underfeeding results in slow growth, NORMAL feeding, results in average growth, heavy feeding results in rapid growth.

Over feeding normally results in obesity. Of course, subpar conditions also results in obesity.

NORMALLY when a snake grows long and thin, no matter how fast or large, its NORMAL.

A snake normally grows long and thin, that bulks out upon sexual maturity. The actual lenght this occurs is based on supporting conditions, as in, temps and prey base(amount of food)

Your beautiful striper appears in very good health, so its normal, but underfed or better yet, undersupported. In this case, its your choice and not natures. Cheers

yes, alot of breeders (recently) have been over feeding or "power feeding" their snakes to make them breeding size quicker.... i just chose the wrong wording, but it was also about 2 am when i was typing.... heh.... i apologize for not coming out clearly what i wanted to say... but he is not power fed in any way shape or form

~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Ball Python, A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

Don't you think that maybe since your male is too small to breed at the age of 2, and your female tries to eat him... that those are both very good signs that you are not feeding enough?

A 2 year old male should be able to breed at almost any size. But if your female is so hungry that she is trying to eat him then she will not succeed.

skunky is just a mean butt head. she will try to eat me if she could. i even put her in a tank with a 5 footer male AFTER (30 mins up to an hour after) eating a mouse about the size of a weanling rat.... and she still tried to eat the 5 footer male.... shes just a biter. Trust me, shes well fed. next time i feed her i will prove if i have to and take pics.... its a nice sized lump in her belly...
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
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Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Ball Python, A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

I think I am not making myself clear, sorry as well. I do not think there is any such thing as power feeding. If a snake feeds on its own, when its hungry, how can it be called powerfeeding. To me powerfeeding is using a caulking gun or something FORCED. Which use to be done a long time ago.

To make it clear, snakes have a genetic potential for maximum growth and speed of growth. They can normally grow very fast or very slow, and everything inbetween. What they actually do, is what either nature or keepers support them to do.

That you choose to only allow yours to grow slow, is your choice, not the snakes. A snake will normally try to grow as fast and as large as it can. It does so to escape predators and to allow a much greater selection of prey(food)

What I have wondered about for decades is, why some folks defend their slow growth(their own choice or lack of ability)(and there is really nothing wrong with that choice) by calling folks who allow faster growth, POWERFEEDING.

You say this because your calling someone a commerical breeder or something. Which is not true at all. A snake grows by its conditions, its genetic potential, and in captivity its support from its keepers. Not if your a breeder or commerical or a novice.

We have seen many times that snakes have reproduced in nature around a year of age. Which is rare in captivity. This includes colubrids, crotalids and pythons. Rick Shine reported water python females gravid at 9 months of age in one of his papers. These are wild animals. We too have seen the same with rattlesnakes and colubrids. Again, these are wild animals.

So why can't captives do the same? Cheers

well, i for one am not a person who will feed their snake 10 mice in one sitting just because it'll take it and then wonder why the snake regurgitated. and yes, i know people who do that. i think having 80 snakes in my possession and feeding them all 1 nice hefty sized mouse (or pinky, fuzzy, rat, etc) a week is healthy. where i also know some people want smaller snakes and only feed once a month or less just to barely keep it alive. i have also read that people who feed 10, 5 or even 3 meals at a sitting can lead to a shorter life. I have a 15 yr old cornsnake who eats 1 large (f/t breeder mouse) a week and shes still great.. where some people cant get their corns to live past 8 years old... AND think about it... how many "wild snakes" live to be 15 years old? i dont think you should [bleep] at the way i keep my snakes... they are all healthy(like you said they looked) i dont keep them in feces and they all seem happy... so by me feeding 1 mouse a week... i'm a "bad herper" screw that!
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
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Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Ball Python, A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

No one said anything was bad about you or your snake. Please reread the thread. My part of the thread is to broaden what is considered normal. As in, a individual snake can grow fast or slow and still be normal and still live a very long life.

I was merely wondering about the powerfeeding term. As to me, its not applied in a real context. You use a few examples of snakes kept poorly. Not examples of snakes that were fed alot and performed near their maximum potential.

The context should be what is normal. Its normal for snakes to grow fast, or not so fast, But other normal things should also occur. With varanids, I use "Lifes basic events" those should be achieved. Of course more then basic events can occur.

So who cares if snake lives for 15 years or 40 years, The oldest I have kept lived to 33 yrs. Anywhere within that should be fine, right? Or whether a female produces 10 clutches or 35 clutches. Anywhere within there should be great, but zero is not great, is it?

What is odd here is you defend your approach and its fine, but you insinuate that powerfeeding is bad. I just don't know what that means. I have had many many female kingsnakes grow extremely fast and produce lots and lots and still live into their twenties. So were mine powerfed? They double clutched from 18 months on, well into their midteens, then single clutched many more years. Is that bad?

Normally its males that set longevity records past the mid twenties.

Oh about wild snakes, your right most die very young, but a decent percentage do live very long lifes, maybe much longer then in captivity.

The point is, how often you feed is based directly on the metabolism of the snake in question. In nature a snake will control how fast it burms energy. In captivity, its not always the case. I would think if an animal makes a choice to maintain a high metabolism and feed everyday, it should be considered normal. Remember, by its own choice. How many here give their animals the ability to make a choice? Do you allow your snakes to pick the temps they want, or do you give them what you think they want or what you think you want?

Anyway, please do get mad, try thinking about whats being discussed and asking some questions. Cheers

That you choose to only allow yours to grow slow, is your choice, not the snakes.

Then why do I have such size variance in snakes from the same clutch kept under identical conditions?

My '06 keepers - one has twice the mass of the other. The smaller one is finally on weanlings - but even when she was clearly big enough for hoppers, she wouldn't eat 'em - she likes smaller food items, and she doesn't feed as much.

From my '07 clutch of same pairing, I've got one eating 2 hoppers a meal and one that won't take more than 1 fuzzy (but she will take an additional peach fuzzy) - she's much smaller than any of her syblings, but has no kinks, readily feeds, she just doesn't grow very fast.

I have no doubt that some snakes grow slower because they don't eat as often - but I highly suspect there is a genetic component as well that results in some snakes just being smaller individuals.

The pairing that produced these clutches is WC from Antioch, CA and a banded amel that has head pattern very much like southern california kings. Both are about 4 feet (female a few inches bigger than male).

As far as the female trying to eat the male being a sign of her being underfed - was the Thayeri female you had that killed her mates until you threw her in with a Cal King underfed?
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I decided my old sig was too big.

Please try to understand this and do not take it bad, as the previous poster did. Its not about you, its about the methods.

If you have variable results, then your conditions are marginal. Then the question becomes what part is marginal.

With animals, there are two distint parts, one the physical and then the non-physical, or mental, or mental state.

For instance, with our field studies, each individual reacts differently to be pit tagged or radio tagged. If you do enough of these, you will see that some do not tolerate interference as all, while other individuals do not seen to care at all. With our field animals, about 65% do not tolerate being tagged and 5% are not bothered, while the other 30% are inbetween.

In captivity, you forget how each individual reacts to being put in a plastic cage that has nothing to do with its inherent knowledge of exsisting. Some tolerate it well, others do not, and many to different degrees. This is also true for social interaction with conspecifics and how they react to YOU messing with them.

Consider, anytime they are touched by a predator, they should have a reaction, the question becomes how much of a reaction.

So, you are foreign to them, our cages are foreign to them, the temps are foreign to them and the food we feed them is foreign to them. So are you expecting all to react the same??

With that said, when you have your husbandry right, its very easy to have all or nearly all individuals succeed in the upper ranges of their genetic potential.

So you may have marginal physical conditions that allow some to succeed better then others, and you may have mental/social conditions that may allow some individuals to succeed better then others.

But, as we obtain generations upon generations and the crossing out of local morphs, it causes natural behaviors to become very diluted and generalized.

As a pioneer, of many captive species, I also learned that first generation wild caught can be very difficult compared to many captive generations later. So we had to develop very good husbandry to succeed with these.

Once Tracy Barker and I were having a old timers converstion, and she summed it up by saying, Frank do you remember when breeding Blood pythons was hard?????? Well it use to be. You see, we started with wildcaught, parasite ridden, abused, abused, abused individuals. And back then there was very little knowledge of vet medicine in this area. So yes, we had to explore other methods that are common now.

Back to your question. The truth is, you should not expect all individuals to react the same to a foreign enviornment. After all, they are NOT postage stamps. There are no two snakes the same.

On the physical side, they surely do required the same sets of conditions, but how they go about choosing them is indeed individual.

On the monitor side, I am famous for breeding a keeping many many many species with SUPERIOR results. While most others range from not being able to keep them alive to very intermitten non consistant reproduction. They all treat each species as if they are different. I do not, But, I treat each monitor as an individual. So i offer what the individual wants, not what a species wants. The results are extreme. I have a female I hatched that just laid her 60th clutch. I have others that are up there. To compare to others, I doubt very highly if any other captive varanid in the world has produced over 25 clutches in their entire lives. And she is gravid on #61 and still going strong.

While what she has accomplished may be extreme, it also indicates that we(including me) are not SUPPORTING monitors in the way we COULD. If we did, she would have company and competition.

What I am saying here is, why do you think your husbandry is good when you have varying and inconsistant results? Did you not just lose a female to egg binding? No offense, that is indication of poor husbandry and the results of poor husbandry.

Remember, we all practice poor husbandry, we all have failures and inconsistancies. So do not take it personal.

My entire mission coming to this forum is based in this area, SHOEBOX husbandry at best results in a very average result, it is nowhere near the best way for the animals. IT is a handy way to keep snakes, in a very average way.

Yes, you can be successful, but in a very average way.

You help you understand, many many years ago, I had three 18 month old female calkings produce 99 offspring(not eggs, hatched offspring) in their first breeding season, and three 18 month old Grey bands produce 66 healthy offspring in their first season. I would think that is not normal, but somewhere near their upper limits of success. Of course, they were not kept in shoeboxes. Those kings all went on to live very long and very productive lifes. They did so, because they were supported to do so.

Of course, if I(as knowing as I appear to be) neglect them, they will die. My task is to not neglect them. That alone is the best husbandry tip you can get.

The problem I see here is, many talk like they have superior results, yet their results are clearly average, successful but average. You see, to determine what is average, you have to use all the data, not just data you pick for your personal reasons.

For instance, I have two friends that produce around 100,000 colubrids a year. You can learn far more about colubrids from those numbers then you can from your pair or three. You see, results are based on numbers, not whether you are a private keeper, a zoo keeper, or a commerical mass producer. The biology and physcology requirements are always the same for the snake, not about who keeps them.

How that effects this thread is, many here throw out others highly successful data and results, by name calling, they are commerical or a breeder or whatever. The real meaning to that is, they are only protecting their own results and fear of exploring other methods. Then if you consider, nature is the best and most successful commerical breeder. Nature produces so many, it feeds the enviornment. Cheers

NP

If you have variable results, then your conditions are marginal.

Bull smurf.
We know genetics is a factor in size. Certain localities grow bigger than others. A prime example would be Okeetee vs Keys Corns - Many keys corns never grow as large as an Okeetee often reaches during its very first year.

When you start mixing different localities, the growth rate and final size don't always average.

The mother of these clutches is a banded amel that looks like she has a lot of SoCal influence (especially her head pattern). The father is a WC banded from Antioch, CA.

Thus there is a really good chance that the two are from substantially different gene pools, increasing the odds of distinctive phenotypes - including growth rates and final size.

Furthermore, there are other visual distinctive phenotypes.
Some have brilliant yellow banding like the mother, some have dull cream banding like the father, some have clean bands like the mother, some have webbing in the bands like the father, the width of bands seems to vary as well even though I don't see much of a difference between mother and fathers bands.

Some will eat over winter no problem like the mother, some will slow down their feeding in the fall like the father - who goes off feed come october whether I keep him warm or not.

I know you are knowledgeable - but really, I think you assume too much, way too much.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

You asked a question, I answered to the best of my ability, Thank you for asking, but I will not go any farther with this subject. Cheers

Frank did you just admit that there is such a thing as heavy feeding?

I thought however much you kings would possibly consume was NORMAL.

HAHA. Just messing with you.

I love the kings as little worms. They're so tiny! I really want to get a stripe to breed to my banded girl to preserve her line (and also to see what kind of offspring I would get). She's such a calm girl. It would be great to get a male as good looking as your female.

so i had nothing to do so i got new pics....
skunky:

Dweezil:

i am to please
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Ball Python, A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

Great patterns on those snakes.

reako45

thanks
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
www.freewebs.com/soberserpents
Corns, Creamsicles, A Black Rat, Thayeri, Cal Kings, A Jungle Corn(Just A Pet), A Ball Python, A Bearded dragon, Leopard Geckos, Green Anoles, a Snapping turtle, and a white cheeked mud turtle

Very nice. Dweezil's a real looker!
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Diego

Here's a pair of Carlsbad stripers. The male is complete, and the female is only slightly broken.

Female:

Male:


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Diego

Posted the same pic of the male twice. Here's the other pic I meant to post:

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Diego

Striped kings are not uncommon in captivity. Most do have a few breaks in the stripe but finding a perfect one isn't too hard. No one "specializes" in them, but you should be able to find one at any large reptile show or from any of the various larger distributers on this site.