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My Eastern king that I purchased from Keith Hilson laid her first ever clutch on the 31st of this May. I have only bred on other snake my Florida kingsnake. the Florida is much larger than the Eastern but the Eastern is not that small herself. Anyway, the Easterns clutch consist of 17 eggs. The eggs are not much bigger than pigeons eggs. Is this common? Has anyone else gotten really small eggs form their Easterns that hatch successfully? My Floridas eggs were more than twice as large.

Mom

Pop

Thanks,
Miller
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1.1 Florida King
1.1 Eastern Kings
1.1 Black Milksnake
0.1 Honduran
1.1 Kankakee Bull Snakes
2.2 N. Pinesnake
0.0.1 Black Ratsnake
1.0 Chow Chow (2003 Papi)
0.1 Cats (Shug)

hi miller, congrats
they are ALOT smaller than fla.king eggs for sure,set them up just like you did the fla.king eggs good luck w/them.
ps i got 11 eggs from that corn!,,,,,,,,,thomas
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Wow,she is big enough to breed already! Post some pics of her and her mate. Maybe I will get some babies from you.

Miller

>>hi miller, congrats
>>they are ALOT smaller than fla.king eggs for sure,set them up just like you did the fla.king eggs good luck w/them.
>>ps i got 11 eggs from that corn!,,,,,,,,,thomas
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>>Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???
>>
>>my website www.barmollysplace.com
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1.1 Florida King
1.1 Eastern Kings
1.1 Black Milksnake
0.1 Honduran
1.1 Kankakee Bull Snakes
2.2 N. Pinesnake
0.0.1 Black Ratsnake
1.0 Chow Chow (2003 Papi)
0.1 Cats (Shug)

Egg size can be local specific and/or species/subspecies specific. It is also a choice an individual female makes. A single individual female can produce high numbers of smaller eggs or a much fewer number of larger eggs. We have seen this with most types of reptiles.

Oddly, while the eggs can be very different in size, the hatchlings are not so much different. That is, the larger eggs seem to contain more water. yes, there is some difference, but not exactly related to egg size. Also the smaller hatchlings catch up very quickly.

Why this occurs is probably based on survival needs, but what exactly causes this is still a wonder to me. Cheers

Thanks for the input FR. This is only the second snake I have ever bred. She apparently has been carrying these egss/ova whatever the term is for a while according to another "snake friend" She was very thick for a couple of years so i went ahead and bred her. She is of a more "noraml" size now. The 17 eggs look good still so here hoping they all make it. Thanks again.

Miller

>>Egg size can be local specific and/or species/subspecies specific. It is also a choice an individual female makes. A single individual female can produce high numbers of smaller eggs or a much fewer number of larger eggs. We have seen this with most types of reptiles.
>>
>> Oddly, while the eggs can be very different in size, the hatchlings are not so much different. That is, the larger eggs seem to contain more water. yes, there is some difference, but not exactly related to egg size. Also the smaller hatchlings catch up very quickly.
>>
>> Why this occurs is probably based on survival needs, but what exactly causes this is still a wonder to me. Cheers
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1.1 Florida King
1.1 Eastern Kings
1.1 Black Milksnake
0.1 Honduran
1.1 Kankakee Bull Snakes
2.2 N. Pinesnake
0.0.1 Black Ratsnake
1.0 Chow Chow (2003 Papi)
0.1 Cats (Shug)

Something I've noticed though not actually measured - it seems the smaller eggs expand more after being laid than the larger eggs.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

This being only the third clutch I have ever seen (my Florida laid two), the eggs do have made a noticable expansion. I really don' recall the Flordia eggs expanding much if at all. There were already large when they were laid. I checked on them last night to see if they had gotting any bigger and they did look a bit bigger than when they were laid.

Miller

>>Something I've noticed though not actually measured - it seems the smaller eggs expand more after being laid than the larger eggs.
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>>I decided my old sig was too big.
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1.1 Florida King
1.1 Eastern Kings
1.1 Black Milksnake
0.1 Honduran
1.1 Kankakee Bull Snakes
2.2 N. Pinesnake
0.0.1 Black Ratsnake
1.0 Chow Chow (2003 Papi)
0.1 Cats (Shug)

It appears that the growing of eggs is based on how much water is absorbed. Not so much the size of the embryo. If an egg absorbs lots of water, there will be lots of water in the egg after the neonate hatches out. Keep an eye out for this. Or

The absorption of water can limit the temps an egg can hatch at. The more water in an egg, the lower the upper limits an egg can experience. Water absorption works with temps, the higher the temps the more is absorbed. Therefore they drown at high temps is too much water is absorbed.

With varanids, if you weight the eggs when laid, they will be at near that weight at hatching. It appears varanid eggs shed excess water before hatching. It also appears that if that cannot occur, for whatever reason, the eggs drown full term, which is very very very common with varanid eggs. Of course that does not occur here, because I keep them dry and do not have that problem.

I am not sure that occurs with snakes, but my bet is, it does, but to a much lesser degree. As fullterm dead embryos is not a huge problem with colubrids, is it?

This is an area of husbandry that is very interesting to me. Cheers

I have probably hatched out only a speck of what you or some other big breeders have, but I find incubation to be the most interesting aspect of the hobby. The rest of my colony might as well be cicadas, hahahaha.

only kidding...

I have come across two good books that approach the topics of egg drvelopment, but I have had not much luck finding useful literature. I guess if all else fails I should change my tactics and ask the librarian for help.

Its interesting that the first free standing independent (from a body of water) reproductive structure still absorbs water. Maybe that sounds dumb, but provided with a full lunch box from mom, I wonder why.

daveb
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in the light, you will find the road...

I get popcorn size eggs from my florida kings every once in a a while. But sometimes I get WhOPPERS like this from a florida king.

This is big for a Brooks king egg.

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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!

Jesus, what size Florda laid that egg or do you have really small hands? That looks like a goose egg! Is that from this season or previous? I would love to see the hatchling that comes out of that one.

Miller

>>I get popcorn size eggs from my florida kings every once in a a while. But sometimes I get WhOPPERS like this from a florida king.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>This is big for a Brooks king egg.
>>
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>>ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!
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1.1 Florida King
1.1 Eastern Kings
1.1 Black Milksnake
0.1 Honduran
1.1 Kankakee Bull Snakes
2.2 N. Pinesnake
0.0.1 Black Ratsnake
1.0 Chow Chow (2003 Papi)
0.1 Cats (Shug)

That was an egg from last season. And the baby was huge.

The female it came from was small for an adult Florida king.

What is weird is the fact my largest females lay these clutches of small popcorn size eggs and the smaller (YOUNGER)females usually lay larger eggs.

this is a yearling female that layed some pretty large eggs in comparison to her size:

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ÌÏËÙÍ ËÁÂE!