Reptile & Amphibian Forums

or frogs? just curious cause they are all over my yard. do you think it would bother them?

Toads can be quite toxic, and even if the monitors were used to eating the ones in their native countries, toads from where you live could make them sick. I've heard that an average toad has enough poison in their skin to kill a good sized rabbit. A cane toad can kill a dog.

I didn't catch that.Toads,frogs,snakes here are full of nasty things,but not poisonous(except snakes).No cain toads or poison dart frogs.A while back,a school teacher lost a cain toad only to have the neighborhood dog end up dead from contact with it.Another kick in the @ss for anything reptilian looking

Feeding toads? If you want them to die - and most varanids will eating toads (Bufo sp.) - a friend of mine fed his argus monitor a american toad and it died in 10 seconds flat! Now frogs, thats another story - V. niloticus, V. salvator, V. jobiensis and V. rudicollis feed on those in the wild, and probably not a problem.

Two varanids "appear" immune to Bufo sp. toxin, and that is Philippine water monitors V. salvator nuchalis and V.s. marmoratus. In Middle Asia, V griseus konieczyni and V.g. caspius appear immune to toad toxin and prey on them there. Interestingly enough, V.g. caspius is reputed to be venomous, as several incidents of Human/V.g.c. have had deleterious effects on said person being bitten, some with surgery!

cheers,
mbayless

Hey Mark
When you say that griseus regularly prey on toads...
couldn't any supposed effects from their saliva be from toad residue? After all, I read that residue from eating carrion, is what makes the Komodo saliva toxic. Captive kept Komodos don't have dangerous saliva.
Just a thought.
D.

>>Hey Mark
>>When you say that griseus regularly prey on toads...
>>couldn't any supposed effects from their saliva be from toad residue? After all, I read that residue from eating carrion, is what makes the Komodo saliva toxic. Captive kept Komodos don't have dangerous saliva.

In Komodo dragons it is a mix of bacteria that live in their mouth that makes them dangerous (apart from their size that is ). CB komodo's just lack most of those bacteria. Thay might get those bacteria from rotting carcasses or when they feed off the same carcass. I don;t know.
That any toad residue would be left in a griseus' mouth is much less likely, but there are stranger things in nature.
Ron

Hi Dragoon,

Yes, it might be possible. I discuss that in my paper in press now; also I just got a paper reporting on african hedgehogs doing that very thing - licking the paratoid glands and putting in onto their own bodies as protection - a few animals do this.

cheers,
markb

I had no idea that American toads would do that!My cat brought a Copperhead baby snake in through my window(I live in Va.).I couldn't kill it, so I let my Blackthoat loose.It(the snake) struck her(the 4' Blackthoat) 3 times before she got pissed and ate it.That was a year ago,so I guess the info on wild Albigs eating poisonous snakes must be true.No ill effects here.

I am glad to hear there were no problems with the albig. eating the copperhead. However, there are a couple of things to keep in mind...

1. You sent a large monitor to dispatch a small snake. Although the snake struck 3 times, it may not have been able to envenomate the monitor. The fangs may not have penetrated the rough hide, or the snake may not have gotten enough venom into the monitor to cause problems. A larger copperhead might have had a much more potent effect on your monitor. Similarly, a smaller monitor may not have faired so well against bites.

2. Not all venoms are created equal. Similarly, not all resistances are created equal. This has been noted in a variety of animals that can eat some poisonous animals but not others. Although an animal may not have a problem with copperhead venom, it may not do so well with rattlesnake or coral snake venom.

I am reminded of an individual who was on this forum many, many years ago. He fed his sav or albig an American scorpion because he had seen albigs eat scorpions on one of the Discovery/TLC/Animal Planet shows, and the program stated that these monitors were immune to the stings. His monitor was repeatedly stung by this American scorpion but managed to eat the scorpion. The monitor died within hours (it might have been the following day).

Sometimes resistances/immunities are specific.

Just some things to consider before feeding a monitor a prey item known to be venomous or poisonous.

I did that out of desperation and would never do it again.The snake struck several times and didn't appear to break the skin in the head region.The lizard actually seemed to strike out of "anger",just seemed aggravated and ate it in a "rage",not hungerMy Colombian Tegu ate one also when I left the cat alone.Maybe I need a better cat,but I've had her for 14 years and she's only 5lbs.(hence the name "KITTY".

Yes V. albigularis do eat deadly snakes, including cobras. If you want to see albigularis "FLIP OUT", offer them a puff adder, and they will rear up on hind legs, arch their necks like a cobra and attack accordingly - even baby puff adders provide this cool gestures by V. albigularis. For pics of this, see Branch (1991) Mertensiella 2:51-110.

cheers,
markb

Yes V. albigularis do eat deadly snakes, including cobras. If you want to see albigularis "FLIP OUT", offer them a puff adder, and they will rear up on hind legs, arch their necks like a cobra and attack accordingly - even baby puff adders provide this cool gestures by V. albigularis. For pics of this, see Branch (1991) Mertensiella 2:51-110.

cheers,
markb