Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that Savannahs have a weird stigma about them, and people view them as terrible starter monitors. What is so wrong with them? I personally like them, and don't understand why people despise them. They're mid sized, not very dangerous, and not too hard to provide for. Is it because they saturate the pet trade too much?

Or...

Does everyone just love them and am I totally wrong?

The stigma comes from sights like this:

Savannahs are probably one of the most abused pets out there. Most people keeping savs have no idea what they are doing and simply purchase a 'cool monitor' for $10 from a reptile store/show.

The majority of the animals die in captivity. If they are such a good 'starter' animal, why don't you see tons of people having success with them? Thousands are imported each year, yet you only hear only hear of captive breedings once a year...maybe.

The only reason savs are 'popular' is because of their price tag and availability....no other reason.

With all that considered, I don't think people 'hate' savs. I think savs bring out what experienced people 'hate' about the reptile community.

Personally, I see savs as too large for a beginner. Properly providing for an adult sav requires alot more than most beginners are prepared for. There are better options for a person interested in keeping monitors.
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-Daniel Hill
www.southernherper.com

That picture is so sad.

I think feeding a sub adult Sav is more than most beginners are prepared for.
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1.0.0 YBS
1.3.0 RES
1.0.0 red belly cooter
1.0.0 Fire belly toad
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor
0.1.0 Leopard Gecko
cats, dog, ferret, rats, mice and hamsters

That picture is NOTHING, that represents one shipping box, they are then dumped in pens of many thousands, stacked 6, 8 inches deep. This I have seen, and that was on this side of the ocean, I have to wonder how they were kept on the other side of the ocean. I have heard its far worse. No cheers here

No cheers what-so-ever Frank.

That isn't any sort of shipping box.

It is ONE box on ONE table at ONE reptile show. Right next to boxes of ball pythons and other common African imports looking just the same.

It is sad. I do not know why people that enjoy reptiles accept things like this. People should not buy from these sellers and shows should not allow them to have tables. I have no respect for that sort of scum.
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-Daniel Hill
www.southernherper.com

this picture made me wanna puke. i've seen stuff like this in person and even worse pictures on the web. my reaction is always the same. how can those people let those poor niles be in conditions like that even for an hour? crap everywhere, no water, no humidity, no place to hide, improper temps...it makes me sick.

I know, what i was trying to say was, Fish and wildlife did impose restrictions on how many can be packed in a bag and in one shipping box. Which is about what your pic showed. The problem is, all those boxes are dumped into one holding cage.

In some sense, those you picked are the lucky ones, as they survived to make it THAT FAR. Of course, they are not that lucky, as 99% of those will be dead in a month or less.

What makes me wonder about the mentality of many other "varanid experts and academics" is, there are simple methods to successfully keep these imported monitors alive, healthy and breeding, but those experts would rather fight and argue and call me bad names, then adopt a simple method of keeping that works. I do not use complicated methods like photoperiod, raincycle, hibernation, UVANYTHING, a wide varity diet. I use a simple method and it works wonderfully. Yet folks fight it because its about the monitors and not about people that their commerical products and complicated outlook. To bad, most of those would live and grow up to reproduce. Again, no cheers

that captures it pretty well there Daniel.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

How are all of these guys imported? Do pet stores get them shipped directly from Africa? If so, who goes out and collects them? Are they farm hatched? By the looks of it, far more are actually imported than actually get sold. Do retailers get them for next to nothing? Because it seems like a lot of them would die before even making it into a customer's hands.

I'm a hot one to be giving any advice in the monitor forum, but I do have to say that ALL of your questions you just posed are in Daniel Bennett's and Ravi Thakoordyal's The Truth about Varanus exanthematicus book. I just picked it up. VERY sound, well-researched info.

As I implied above, all of the topics are listed in a question format. If you even want to learn about savannas from afar, great book.

I had a couple of savannas as a young teenager. One I traded for a boa at a pet store, the other was a hatchling that eventually went the way of most baby imported savannas. Ughhh! I wish this book would have been available back then.

DR
Suboc.com

A few years ago a wholesaler used to sell them commonly for $1 each to retailers, and others who sell them at reptile shows. A few years before that a wholesaler offered them to me at .50 each. On the retail end you payed about $25-$50 each.
They ship around 26,000 or more a year to the continental US for the pet trade alone. Roughly half or less survive the shipping process and make it into stores alive or to reptile shows, this is common for all imported species of reptiles, just different numbers imported and sold.
These people who sell them in stores and most at shows dont give a ratts butt about them, just making profit.
Farm raised is a load of crap, these are imported WC and badly abused.
I havent had a WC captive animal in years now, the last several WC reptiles were all given to me. All of my pets are captive bred and born, or privately bred mammals and reptiles, bought from a breeder, adopted for free from a breeder, or adopted from a rescue.

Those prices are pretty ridiculous obviously the guy selling them for a buck a piece is some sort of bootleg turn and burn clown. Something doesn't add up. Personally I've never seen them for less then $4.00 here (USA) let alone .50 . Prices in Africa typically range from 3 to $8 depending on the time of year for hatching's and small animals. Legitimate wholesalers (Guys who aren't operating out of their spare bedrooms )generally charge fro $6.00 to $12.00.

It's pretty clear that import numbers will go down and the prices might come up. Rather then go into my own account as to my personal feelings on the topic. I'd like to hear some other opinions about what could /should be done . If anything.

Ernie Eison Westwoodreptiles.com

Those prices I had came from a reputable reptile dealer in NJ years ago, depends on the numbers you bought they were .50-$1 each (somewhere I may even have the price list yet).
The wholesaler my friend got his lists from ranged from $1-$2.50 (at most) each was only a few years ago. These were very healthy, colorful, and he never recieved a single unhealthy animal from them.
I guess he just knew a good supplier. Even a nile monitor ranged from $1.25-$4 each a few years ago (deoends on the month). Once he recieved a number of beautiful water monitors for nile monitor prices(saved $20 each).
Regardless they are very inexpensive, and are shipped in every year by the thousands. Its usually easy to find the figures on annual import numbers, every year the figures are available to the public.

Others here have addressed the fact that they are imported for around $5 each. Then often sold for nearly that. This is the main problem.

Savs, are a mid sized monitor, to successfully keep them, you will have to spend up to 20 dollars a week or food and electricity. Of course, there are ways to lower that, but most buyers are impluse buyers lured in by the low prices and are not able or aware of how to do that.

Second, a midsized monitor REQUIRES a large cage. That means, ten feet long is about minimum. Of course, you could use a smaller cage, but then, you have to KNOW what your doing. The problem here is, 99.999% of Sav owners are newbies and do not know what there doing.

Third, Savs are a "lost leader" in the petshop industry. Pet shops do not make money on them. They make there money on the products they sell with them, including the food they consume. The problem here is, those products are NOT good for the monitor. And soon that monitor dies and is replaced over and over.

While it was mentioned they are imported by the thousands, its closer to several hundred thousand a year. Of which 99% die within a few months.

Just for fun, take the average lifespan of a midsized monitor, say 12 years. Over the average lifespan of a Sav, 2.5 million have been imported. This is sad, As I guess its a good thing they die, or our country would be covered in them. If they were actually bred in captivity, there would be tens of millions, hmmmmmmmm again good thing that does not occur.

Next, its respect, a CHEAP price, does not instill respect for the animal. If the monitor would actually cost more, like a few hundred bucks, then more folks would respect them enough to actually invest some time and money to keep them.

Lastly, A good beginer monitor SHOULD BE SMALL, that way, folks could actually keep them in a cage thats appropriate to their size. And feed them appropriate to their size. An example is, an ackie eating a large cricket is comparable to a Sav eating an adult mouse. At a petshop a cricket is a few cents, and a mouse is a buck and a half(both aprox) Which one is going to be fed properly by newbies???? Again, no cheers here

Years ago at a reptile show the neighboring table was an importer, he had the box that the boscs were imported in, that box that held around 100 of them, the size of the box was about 12" by 12" by 24". This guy threw the box away with one left in it that I took care of for a few months then gave him away.

I definately have to agree that the cheap price makes people not respect them. They figure they die they buy a new one they are just cool to have. In most areas most pet stores eithier dont tell them the correct way to care for them to sell more products or they dont even know how to care for them correctly themselves. I am far from a monitor expert I am learning more everyday. I have a 2.5 foot savy. He came to me as a rescue. There is a reptile specialty store by me and he got this savy in from a kid who couldnt take care of it and he didn't have the room for it long term so I took it. The monitor has burns on his back from being in to small of a cage and pushing his back against the lights. He also has a deformed toe. He also had the tip of his tail all messed up and built up of sking because of not shedding properly. It took forever of correct moisture to get his tail back normal. When the kid brought him in he was also skinny cause he wasnt feeding him enough because he couldnt aford it... its really sad but he is a good monitor and i learn from him all the time wish i knew how old he was though....
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Tom
1.2.0 Leopard Gecko (dot, spot, leo)
0.0.1 California King Snake (booboo)
0.1.0 Sulcata Tortoise (tank)
0.0.2 Russian Tortoise (tito and lulu)
0.0.2 Red Ear Sliders (bernie and ernie)
0.0.3 Painted Turtles (larry, curly and moe)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (marshmellow)
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor (beef)
1.0.0 Peachfront Conure (kermit)
0.1.0 Australian Shepheard (layla)
2.1.0 Crazy Cats (babe, sabastian, tinkerbell)
0.1.0 Lion Head Rabbit (daisy)
0.1.0 Ferret (jordan)
0.2.0 Guinea Pigs (lilly and petunia)
0.0.1 White Tree Frog (dumpy jr.)
0.0.2 Fire Belly Newts (spork and blaze)
0.0.1 Fire Belly Toad (ferdinan)
0.0.1 Red Spotted Newt ( red)
0.0.2 Bull Frogs (goliath and tubby)
0.0.1 Rainbow Ameive (jack)
0.0.1 Spectacled caiman (wilbert)
0.0.3 Green Anoles
1.0.0 Bahama Anole
0.0.1 Long Tail Grass Lizard
Lots Of Fish

Boscs are my favorite species. They are awesome in every way. They didn't ask for this to happen to them, and they don't deserve it!

It gets to me, but what also gets to me is that the people who do have the ability to raise them up properly and breed them don't. It seems they've all moved on to "bigger(or smaller in a lot of cases) and better" species.

what also gets to me is that the people who do have the ability to raise them up properly and breed them don't. It seems they've all moved on to "bigger(or smaller in a lot of cases) and better" species.

Passion is everything- you seem to have a lot of it, so you would be the best person to figure out how to breed Boscs successfully and do it! I wish you all the luck.

Susan.