Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I was really hoping someone would have responded to my question below.

Someone at least was kind enough to email me privately to ask if she'd finished laying yet. She has not laid any more.

As I have never intended to breed my snakes, this whole "accident" has me in a bit of a panic.

I will certainly seek out vet care for her if/when needed but as of yet, I still don't know what's normal or abnormal for egg laying.

She hasn't laid any eggs since June 3rd and she has at least 5 more eggs to go.

Just when should I start to worry about her possibly being egg-bound? At the moment she does not appear to be in any discomfort and I'm taking that as a sign she's doing ok so far.

Again, any advice regarding this situation would be appreciated.

I need more info
#1 do you know if they bred before or is this their first year?
#2 did you keep the one egg, do you have a picture of it
#3 how often are you peeking in on the snake? You may be stressing it out which won't help any
#4 was the snake in good condition when you received it or was it possibly dehydrated? Is there water in the snakes cage now?

If this is her first year producing, that egg may be early and may be infertile which is fairly common for a first year breeder. She may indeed pass a nice normal clutch soon but again, peeking in on her over n over is not a good thing to do.
How many days after she shed did she lay the egg????
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

Thanks for replying, Tom.

To answer your questions:

#1 do you know if they bred before or is this their first year?

I do not know but my guess is that this is her first year.

#2 did you keep the one egg, do you have a picture of it

I kept the one egg but it went bad pretty quickly. No pics, unfortunately because I had left my camera at my boyfriend's house (he lives an hr away).

#3 how often are you peeking in on the snake? You may be stressing it out which won't help any

I've been trying to leave her alone. After the first day (Tuesday), I checked on her about 4 times on Wednesday, 3 times on Thurs & Fri, decided to go out of town (to bf's) to give her some true peace and quiet & checked on her once today.

The days I checked on her 3-4 times, I did so once in the morning, once during lunch and then once in the evening. The day that I checked on her 4 times, the extra time was to give her a nesting box with damp (not wet) perlite in it.

#4 was the snake in good condition when you received it or was it possibly dehydrated? Is there water in the snakes cage now?

No, she's not dehydrated - she has always had access to water (and yes, there is water in with her now). So I'd say she was in good condition (at a normal weight - not fat, not skinny).

Another aside - I've been keeping her at a pretty consistent temperature of 78-80 during the day and 72-74 at night.

Forgot to mention - not sure exactly when she shed. As I wasn't expecting this, I didn't pay attention to how long it'd been since she shed. I know it was during the week, but which one, I'm not sure. I say this because I often travel during the week for work. I do recall removing a shed from her enclosure but I really don't know which week it was (and I traveled every week in May).

Ok, just going to keep replying to myself here because I keep forgetting things I was going to mention. Most of the times when I've checked on here, I've tried to do so as unobtrusively as possible (just lifting the lid, peeking in to make sure there were no eggs & then closing it).

Another question - I'm supposed to go out of town next weekend (leave Friday, return Sunday), if she hasn't laid any by then, is it safe to leave her alone for that long? She's not acting uncomfortable or anything else indicating that she's having any difficulties.

If it's not advisable to leave her, though, I'll cancel my trip.

I am unsure if this matters but I don't think perlite is your best choice for a nestbox.
I'd get some moss, peat/ sphagnum, any kind without chemicals and without miracle grow.
I'd also try and make the box as deep as possible and consider putting something over the cage to keep it dark.
It's too bad you can not recall when she shed, as that would tell us a lot. It it was one week ago, she may be just fine and just might deliver a clutch
That can be said for 2 weeks too, but 3 is not exactly holding any signs of good news.
I wish you had a camera too, and this is where things begin to contradict....as I said stress is always bad and now here I am asking you to take pics which may get her riled up. I am just wondering if the lumps are near the vent or in her midsection or what.
My advice for now is put a second box in for nesting if there's room. If not remove one and try a new one and keep her dark.
Snakes are capable of keeping eggs in them for long periods of time. I had one snake deliver an egg from the previous year after winter cooling, which was hard as a rock. I have also seen them pop them out one at a time with several days in between. Honestly there's a lot that can happen.
If you want, email off the forum at TomsSnakes@gmail.com
Medical advice is always a touchy subject as unfortunate instances like this can lead to a lot of finger pointing....what one person may consider very sound advice may be considered terrible to another.
I have had only 2 snakes in 8 years become eggbound. One passed them on its own with no assistance and another was soaked in luke warm water. When I say soaked I don't mean for a few hours...I mean for several days straight. That was a king and she delivered all the eggs over the course of a week. A bull will probably hate that, but it is something people try.
Think about all of this, do not rush and try to predict what is your best option. Write if you need me
Tom

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TomsSnakes.com

Hi Tom,
Thanks again for such a thoughtful reply. If I had to guess, it was probably 2 weeks ago when she shed. She laid the one egg last Tuesday evening & nothing since then.

Even without the camera, I can pretty much tell you exactly where the lumps are within her body. Now, I know it's roughly the lower half or lower 3rd of their body where the eggs are. With her, I can definitely see 5 lumps which are pretty evenly spaced. One is about a half inch to an inch up from her vent. It's been there since she laid the egg on Tuesday. When I checked on her today, I did gently feel that area and it's not hard.

Like I mentioned before, she is not at all agitated or restless. She seems pretty content. I do have quite a bit of experience with snakes (I've been keeping snakes for 15 yrs), so I am hoping that my description of her behavior is accurate. My point in mentioning her behavior is that she does not seem to be in dire straits. I am hoping this is just a case of not exactly being ready to lay her eggs.

I have no qualms about taking her to the vet, but I've yet to find a good herp vet around here, so I don't want to take her unless it's truly necessary. In all honesty, I'd be afraid that the vets I've been to would be too quick to do something drastic.

I just went to peek in on her (looking into the enclosure but not opening the lid) - she's curled up in the nesting box I provided her.

I'll try to find some better substrate for the nesting box. I didn't have a lot of time the other night to run all over town searching for stuff. All I could find was perlite & I had decided to use that for an incubator. Before that, I had made her a makeshift box lined with soft towels covered by damp paper towels. She was happily sitting in that when I had it in there too. I'll also cover her enclosure with towels to keep it dark.

Thanks again for your advice. I really do appreciate it.

This is a very hard call?
Sounds like the one close ot the vent is an infertile, which seem harder for the snakes to pass as opposed to fertile ones.
I would not be surprised if there are a few good eggs in her and another infertile or two, just a guess of course.
Best thing to do in the meantime is keep her dark and undisturbed.
The few eggbound snakes I have seen did not show any signs of being in pain, and acted fairly normal. It's too bad you don't have anyone local to check the snake and get another opinion. It would be best to have someone check in on it without having to transport it anywhere.
That would stink if she started laying a good clutch in transit. Man I just don't know??? I hope she comes through on her own soon
Tom
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TomsSnakes.com

Ugh - harder to pass. What a thought. For me to have her checked out would definitely mean a visit to the vet (ie, transporting her).

In your experience, if they have infertile ones near the vent, do many of the snakes eventually pass these on their own? Anecdotal stories are welcome.

I too hope she comes through on her own soon. I've spent the past 5 days worrying (yeah, I know...worrying is never good).

I saw a Bull here that slugged out and she had a hell of a time getting the infertiles out of her. I watched her crawl around the cage as she pushed and pushed with the egg coming out a little and then going back in.
I often see snakes next to motionless when they deliver good clutches here. Sure they can and do move a bit but that one Bull was crawling around worse than one in nest searching mode.

My guess is most people on here feel the last time she shed is the most important clue to her problem, if she even has one....and it is just really hard to guess what is best for the snake, it's a hard question to give a proper reply too...
Tom
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TomsSnakes.com

awww the poor girl that slugged out.

I've modified her enclosure a bit to hopefully make it more comfortable/productive for her but she seems very comfortable, coiled up in the existing box with the perlite.

I can certainly understand how tough of a question this is.

Tom's done a great job in guiding you, and I have to agree with him that I don't think perilite is a good choice for a nesting medium. Sphagnum is my medium of choice. As I said, Tom has said nothing that I disagree with. The vet may be your only choice if another week or so goes by. As Tom said it is a touchy subject (could be why you haven't gotten a lot of responses) that has many opinions for a solution. I have had a couple of snakes eggbound over the years. One of which was a Cape Gopher that passed away. That one snake is why I'm leary of waiting too long for medical attention. I aspirate (sucking out the insides of the egg that is stuck with a needle) the eggs myself now if I have a girl having trouble. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO THIS YOURSELF. This is where your vet would come in. There are things that can go wrong by waiting. There are things that can go wrong by aspirating. You just have to weigh each and make the best choice you can. Good luck to you!

Jeremy
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net