Reptile & Amphibian Forums

To the arguement of the black pastel and cinny naming issue, undue credit was given to Ian for proving that line out and getting to name it is crazy since he bought his animals from GCR as the name they gave it the "labrynth" ball. Now about the credit to Greg Graz. for being the one that originally proved out the morph, GCR produced the "labrynths" in 2000 and produced the super in 2002 the same year Greg Graz. was given credit for proving out the cinny/black pastel. Now Greg produced his cinny clutch before they produced the super clutch in that year but they had previously produced multiple clutches of "labrynths" the 2 previous years. If you would like you can see a picture of their founding animal in the book "The worlds most amazing reptiles and amphibians". The picture was taken by Bill Love and is an obvious snake know today as a black pastel which is still owned by GCR. This book was printed in 1998 and the photograph was taken in 1996 when the snake was originally brought in. Now knowing how successful Chris and Sheila are with their breeding, I find it impossible to think anyone could believe that they had a snake in their possession for 6 years without ever breeding it. I also find it impossible for a super to be produced without producing duplicates of the founding animal. Now I'm pretty sure nobody cares about this, but the comment below about the naming issue has finally caused me to speak up about this.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Ian was the first to call a black pastel a black pastel to show it was a different/better animal than the labyrinth line.
Bottom line Ian G line black pastel is the best hands down, no contest!

Not looking for a fight just stating the facts.
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J&J REPTILES
www.jnjreptiles.com
sales@jnjreptiles.com
(207)479-6658

Ian G. line of black pastel is the "labrynth". He bought them from Gulf coast reptiles so how can it be better?
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Actually I think it is commonly known by now that Ian imported Black Pastels directly from Africa that had nothing to do with the Gulf Coast line. Yes it is true Ian did get some of those original ones from Chris but he also kept the lines seperate after he crossed them together and didn't really like the results. Once he built up his imported Black Pastel colony I think Ian got rid of most and maybe all of those that were not from his imported Black Pastels as he found that his imported line was better looking and a stronger line anyway.. I have Ian's Black Pastel Line here and they are the most " red wine" colored of any of the other lines I have looked at, they are very nice. Ian's Silver Streak was from his own Black Pastel line and those are distinctively different than the other Super Pastel/Black Pastels out there, they are different , Josh from J&J is right on this one I think.. Anthony.

yes Ian did import another line a year after he purchased stock from GCR. However, he had already changed the name of the GCR stock to black pastel and placed his name on it as the Ian G line. Also the black pastel in general is variable. I've seen some from the actual Ian G line that were barely different from normals and I've seen some of the original GCR line that are just as stunning as any out there (I'm posting our founding male purchased directly from GCR and he is as beautiful as any black pastel I've ever seen). Also all cinny/black pastel lines produce "tweaked" and perfect supers, it's just in the gene. Heck even, cinny x black pastel supers can be tweaked.

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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I bought this snake from john michael reptiles..he said he bought it from Ian g at a reptile expo before it had even eatn its first meal.......it looks a bit different than most black pastels!! mine does the spider upside down head wobble thing but eats great !

[IMG]http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh208/frogbeater36/IMG_1573.jpg[/IMG]

hears another pic

Like anyone that brought in large quantities of babies Ian got many black pastels in as normals for many years I would bet. I know many people that got cinnamons, blacks, yellow bellies, and many more of the less dramatic looking visuals in normal shipments for years. If you ask him I am sure Ian kept many he brought in and many he raised up. They are still black pastels though. Some are always going to be better than others just like any other gene.

Yep, you are off on your history. They are the same animal.

I think it is common knowledge to most people in the business about Gulf coast reptiles proving out the black and super as they had them both at the florida expos and the big people in the biz convention all was by their table to see what they were. I also believe that it is pretty common knowledge that Greg G gets the cinny credit. They are very different looking animals. Maybe some day they will prove to be the same thing from just different locales as many other things do but right now you have two different people with two projects and I do not know who you think argues that point to get so upset about it. Ian may have been one of the first people to pick them out of African shipments as something other than normals. That is a strong possibility but you would need to ask Ian that.

I just wish that neither of them had been tagged with the pastel name. Neither of them are pastels, and that makes it confusing. A cinnamon pastel, sounds like it should be a pewter. Also the pewter, silver streak, silver bullet etc, gets confusing.

np

While on the topic of naming, how about the confusion with the vanillas, super vanillas, thunder, lightning, and if I'm not mistaken, whirlwinds. I'm not sure about the whirlwind and it's super form.

I'm not sure if they are all the same, correct me if I'm wrong, it won't be the first time.

At least with the vanilla and super vanilla, you can tell by the name which is which. The super tells you that. With the others, it becomes confusing. I like the descriptive names better.

Thanks Mike

Every body knows what Anthony Mc did to his friend and founder of that project . So why bring it up again ,he isn’t worth mentioning !! . David

I have no idea What you are talking about. All I meant is the confusion of multiple names and when a totally different name is used for the super. Such as thunder and lightning, compared to vanilla and super vanilla. With the latter there is no mistaking which is which.
Mike