Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been researching this for a long long while now, and have been trying to produce a solid black dragon. It is possible, just as patternless reds, and whites come about. I have been using german imports, dark grey black normals, and a few dark trans to get one. I have several that are mostly black with a little grey patterns. With the craze of color, and pattern going wild right now, I want something different. I love the colors and love the trans, and hypos and bright reds, but I think I will keep trying to produce one.

Forgot to mention I am experimenting with adding the Pagona Barbata blood to the mix. As most know it is commonly called the eastern bearded dragon. It tends to be more black in color with a sulfur yellow mouth. I have two of these beauties and while they dont have the colors that most want, they do add a possibility of strenghthening the bloodlines of dragons out now. They definately lend a hand to gaining a black dragon.

hi
post some pics please !!

byeeee
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www.dragoncave.nl

I know there are a lot of people looking for the Barbata and can't find any....why don't you breed them, instead of breading them into your vitticeps group?
Do you have pictures of your Barbata's?

It's awesome to breed for a black dragon

greetings,

Michel
http://www.mbdragons.nl./

I recommend not cross breeding your eastern dragon to the Inland dragons...both are two different subspecies and it will only produce hybrids.

Not everybody wants to buy hybrids, we already have the Lawsons dragons mixed with Inland bearded dragons which produces a smaller hybrid than Inland bearded dragons...though I don't see any real benefit at all in the cross breeding. I have never been a big fan of creating hybrids.
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PHLdyPayne

While I agree on taking it easy with hybrids, the Lawsons dragon and Vitticeps is much farther apart than the Barbata and Vitticeps and in fact the two were originally imported together (barbata /vitticeps) and cross bred without knowing, biology and genetics wasnt the same back in the day. Much of the german giant lines carry the barbata blood from way back when. Even traits in todays lines carry traits from the barbata dragon. Enlarged spines ranging over the forarms of the dragons, and the sulfur mouths (not in the inland dragons in Australia, only the eastern). As I have said before I dont intend on selling first generation hybrids, or even trying to get a market for them, I use the bloodline to strengthen back breed to another german giant, then again to another unrelated "Normal" dragon to get a hardy and desired line. What in my opinion is a bigger problem is the breeding frenzie of today. I have first hand knowledge and have been told by a big breeder that back breeding takes a while and doesnt bring the money, the babies arent colorful enough or they arent translucents, nobody wants a little normal colored dragon. This has brought about more genetic problems, mutations, and sickly dragons. I may not be a large scale breeder but I do back my dragons with degrees in genetics, biology, and zoology. It saddens me to see good work like Josh does go to waste because somebody buys his dragon, then cross breeds with another dragon that he sold somebody else. Then the babies come out weak, die, or dont grow large. This leaves a bad opinion of the original breeder like Josh who is a great breeder in my opinion. So thats my soapbox discussion. Sorry to take so much time. I wont do it again. HA HA HA If you even read this all. No more preaching.

You do have very valid points. It is amazing how many people (usually beginners who end up getting bad info from pet stores or less responsible breeders) buy several dragons at the same time and keep them together, only to later find out it is a brother and sister from the same clutch and they of course, being animals, end up breeding and producing eggs.

Also, many people don't realize the work, time and cost of raising bearded dragons clutches. Not to mention the addition work and effort to find new homes for the offspring. So many people's reasons to breed their dragons is simply 'I thought it would be cool.' and when asked what they will do with all the babies 'Oh I will sell them to a pet store.' My advise, is if they want to know what it is like to breed a reptile, get a pair of leopard geckos or better yet, crested geckos. Easy to breed, don't take alot of space and they have small clutch yields. Maybe 12 eggs max in a breeding season...where a single bearded dragon clutch can be 15-25 eggs...definitely a big difference.

Paying attention to genetics is good...though in just about every trait breeding, line breeding is done..but most good breeders will out breed to strengthen their lines, then create less related lines....but with such large numbers its hard to keep track of what came were...and the US and Canada does have a rather limited blood pool to begin with since Australia has put a ban on all exports of their native wildlife. Though bringing in European bloodlines into the US has allowed for a freshening of the gene pool here...though now I can't remember the breeders in the US who was able to import some European dragons.

I have also noticed, now that I actually looked, there are some leathers and translucent available in Canada now...I don't know if they originally came from Josh though I am going to ask next time I am at a reptile show and see them available.
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PHLdyPayne