Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My male beardy has had a tumor on his jaw for some time. It hasn't bothered him for a few months, but lately its been getting a lot worse. Its growing really fast and now he is having trouble eating. He can't catch crickets and even when he does he has trouble swallowing them, and he is losing weight fast. I believe that there are other tumors in his lungs because he has been gaping a lot, and breathes really hard sometimes. I don't think there are any reptile vets around here, and I kind of have a mistrust for regular vets. I have a friend who had a pet rat euthanised and he said that they injected something into his heart and he was struggling and it was a really horrible experience. So I have been looking at the forums and I've come up with 3 ways to kill him humanly

- dust crickets with xanax (not sure how much to use. People in forums have said that injecting with barbituates is a good way to go. But I don't like the whole trying to find a vein in a lizard thing. so I think swallowing them with a good last meal would be better.)

- Inject with ketamine. I know a guy that knows a guy. again not sure how much to use but since its IM and not IV this would be the best leathal injection route. I figured injecting him in that soft spot behind the front leg would be best.

- make a Co2 chamber. Saw that people use it on mice. but also heard that mice struggle, so this one I'm not so sure about.

So if anybody has some suggestions, previous experience with this, or knows how much xanax or ketamine to use, I would love to hear your suggestions. thanks

What???

What you are talking about is probably illegal. I am pretty sure of it. You don't have a reptile vet anywhere? Where are you located? Cause if it is anywhere around me I would offer to take him to the vet and have this done properly.

>>- dust crickets with xanax (not sure how much to use. People in forums have said that injecting with barbituates is a good way to go. But I don't like the whole trying to find a vein in a lizard thing. so I think swallowing them with a good last meal would be better.)
>>
>>- Inject with ketamine. I know a guy that knows a guy. again not sure how much to use but since its IM and not IV this would be the best leathal injection route. I figured injecting him in that soft spot behind the front leg would be best.
>>
>>- make a Co2 chamber. Saw that people use it on mice. but also heard that mice struggle, so this one I'm not so sure about.
>>
Euthanasia is a hard thing. If the animal is not injected properly, there is a chance that it will struggle. Also for every 10000 animals that go peacefully to sleep with the drugs used, there are always exceptions to the rule. It sounds as if your friends rat may have been the exception. I believe most everywhere Ketamine is a registered drug, which means unless you break the law you cant just walk into Walgreen's and buy it. Ketamine is a sedative and injecting enough would in fact get your end result but again, it is very illegal to have with out proper paperwork.

Have you checked the Association of Reptile and Amphibian Veterinarians or Herp Vet Connection?

Remember IM injections are often painful. The euthanasia solutions are NOT ever suggested for IM. For reptiles IC is the best route. There are also other issues if you do not inject IC.

While I know plenty about the euthanasia process, having been trained and certified in it, CO2 was never discussed. I know from using it with rodents, they do not always go quietly.

My best suggestion if you are set on euthanasia is to take it to the vet and have them administer the shot. It is a regulated drug, and while there are side effects, it is considered the humane form of euthanasia. Check the two links in the post. If you don't find a vet close, look for do a search for your local humane societies and ask if they are familiar with reptile euthanasia (which with injured wildlife they may be) or contact a local wildlife rehabber or reptile rescue. Also find your closest Herp Society. You can get vet references at all these places.
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Cindy
PHFaust

Email Cindy

Land of the Outcasts!

I asked the guy that sells me crickets and he actually recommended me to a good reptile vet. Unfortunately the the closest opening is on tuesday. So I have an appointment then.

He also suggested that he might have nutritional secondary hyperparathyroidism, which will make me feel really bad because that would be something in my control. I looked at the symptoms and it listed swollen jaw. But he is not at all lethargic, and definately doesn't have any broken bones or anything major like that. Since I'm feeding him by hand right now, he has missed and bit me a few times, and his teeth feel good and solid. I feed him a good varied diet. HOWEVER, it just dawned on me that he has not been getting much UV exposure for the past year and a half because, I have been taking him out of his cage and letting him run around my room almost everyday, I set up a regular heat light in my room for him to bask but no UV. he's about 6 years old. Also his sister who lives in the same conditions is perfectly fine.

Also I have noticed his respiratory prolems probably as long as 6-8 months ago. I've seen him gaping from time to time and have heard a clicking noise in his chest. I assumed respiratory infection so kept him warm. And it seemed to go away. If he started gaping again I thought "well didn't get rid of the infection" and kept him good and warm again. (so in short, should've taken him to the vet a long time ago)

is gaping an early sign of NSHP?

I read in another forum that gaping is either a respiratory infection or tumors somehow aftecting the lungs. I of course, think its the latter.

I've managed to fatten him up a little bit, but he's still pretty skinny. Still very active but, if it gets worse I would much rather put him down than watch him slowly turn into a skeleton over a month because it is so difficult for him to eat. Is K the drug they normally use to put down a lizard? I'd like to get the vet to do it, if I botch putting my lizard down I would feel REALLY bad. but if the injection is easy to do I'd just like to do it myself cause then I can have control and keep him real comfortable. And I don't want to sound cheap, but multiple vet visits, especially if he gets a biopsy will break me.

any help would be appriciated. If he does in fact have NSHP, I want to start getting him on some more calcium. and take some suggestions of what to do to help.

thanks.
ps. sorry about the long post :-p

Have you been supplementing him with calcium and D3?

If it's a calcium issue it may be reversible.

Vet care is a necessary part of pet ownership. It's a lot cheaper to give regular care than emergency or extraordinary care later.

yeah good point.
I've always been told to take them at the earliest signs. Unfortunately when I first saw the swelling/tumor I thought it was just from him bumping his head when he wanted to be let out. I put towels around his cage to prevent that, and it kept getting worse.

If it is a calcium problem I definately caught it in time to reverse it. I have been getting lazy on giving him supplements over the past few months. So hopefully it has something to do with that.

id just get him fully checked by a vet before deciding to put him down or not. if you dont know exactly whats wrong with him you dont know if its reversable or not.
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Judson
Beach Beardies

0.1. bearded dragon
1.1. Sugar Gliders
0.2. Felines *queen athena and missy*

Gaping doesn't necessary mean respiratory infections, tumors or the like. Dragons gape to cool themselves off. Signs of respiratory infections would be wheezing (not to be mistaking with the breathy hiss they can give out when annoyed and trying to scare you off, but this bluff is quite distinctive, the beard will be extended, darkened and the mouth wide open and it can be followed with mock charges.) Bubbling from the nostrils, mucus or yellowish crusts around the nostrils or mouth are also signs of respiratory infections.

Being over 6 years old, there could be many possible issues, including MBD, but other signs of old age. In the end, a complete physical examination by a qualified reptile vet is the best thing to do. They can properly identify what is wrong. If it is low calcium (but not enough to cause other symptoms of low blood calcium (ie soft jaw, trembling in the limbs) then a blood test or X-ray can indicate this. A swollen jaw could be a break that is healing badly, an abscess, mouth rot, or other issue.

If you don't have any UVB bulbs, and the weather is nice in your area, you can take him outside (place in a rubbermaid container or screen cage so he doesn't take off on you (and they can do this unexpectedly if something startles them, like a bird flying overhead). Cover half the container with a board or the lid, so there is a shaded spot. Sit out with him for about an hour. (never leave him unattended, even for a minute. Too many bad things could happen, including being snatched by a predatory bird or scavenger, or the neighbors' bratty kid). About an hour of natural sunlight (unfiltered through glass) will allow for plenty of UVB exposure, about 6 hours total spread out over a week works fine.

Don't use glass tanks outside though, they heat up way to fast, even without a lid. If your dragon is gaping alot even in the shaded area, then he's too hot, take him back inside and try later in the day when the temperature isn't quite as hot, or earlier in the morning.
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PHLdyPayne

Thanks PHLdyPayne. I really hope its not MBD but I guess that would be better than a tumor. He has a vet appointment on tuesday. Just looking for possible answers till then so I can start doing something about it.. I've got a UV light on is out-of-cage basking spot now. I'll set up a place outside for him to bask later today. I've been feeding him a little bit everyday instead of a lot at once and have been dusting his crickets. This seems to help maintain his wieght and maybe he's gained a little. I have some tomato hornworms that'll be ready soon so that should fatten him up. he's still really active and doesn't seem to be in pain.

as for the gaping he does it while he's basking, And I've also hear a sort of clicking noise in his chest with every few breaths, which I havn't heard in the female. I also saw him drinking a LOT of yesterday, and he drooled afterwards.

I'll let you all know what the vet says. I may have jumped to the euthanasia conclusion too quickly, but thats all I could think of when my girl freind told me "thats not a swelling thats a tumor"

later

I will definitely wait till you see the vet on Tuesday. It could very well be a tumor but it doesn't necessarily mean its cancerous. it could simply be due to cage rubbing. Mouth rot could cause it, and the other things I have already mentioned.

The fact he is active and eating are good signs. Make sure he gets exposed to proper basking heat and UVB, and watch the humidity. I hope once the vet looks him over it turns out to be something easily treated so you can enjoy your pet for more years to come.
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PHLdyPayne