Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am thinking of breeding mice soon, but i am just curious of what the best ways of killing them for freezing is. The first time i tried i pretty much squished its head, sufficating it. I need some better techniques. any suggestions would be wonderful.
Thanks
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-Emily: The snake gal

Well, this has been disgussed many times before,...but large rodent facilities that euthanize rodents for this purpose kill them with Co2. Other's dispatch the rodent by firmly holding the head on a table, and giving the tail a quick hard yank that breaks the neck,...however, if this is done incorrectly, or with uncertain hesitation. it could just hurt the animal and actually make it suffer during this process.

No unless you need to do this in a very large quantity, the method I have alway preferred is to simply slam the rodent down onto a hard concrete surface with enough force as to make SURE it dies, and not just left severely stunned. If "whacked" properly using this method, it will definitely kill the rodent, you can even do this twice in very quick succession to make double sure it's done very quickly. One thing though, it many times tends to make them bleed through the nose/mouth area, and you should be prepared to do some cleanup afterwards.

Although this does "sound" cruel, this is actually FAR better than suffering from the snake by constriction, or doing it number of other ways incorrectly, leading to the animal suffering.....I've always found that slamming them forcefully against a hard concrete surface is very fast and painless,.....they don't even know what hit them, it's just simply over.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

a modification of the method Doug described above that I have heard of people doing is to put the rodent in a sack like a pillow case or something, hold onto the top, and slam the other end with the rodent in it against a hard surface like a counter top. Basically the same thing as launching them onto concrete but I guess there would be less risk of splatter.

That does work on the exact same result, I forgot to also include that, as I have also used that method as well.

The main point I'd like to get across to people, is to do it suddenly and swiftly with enough force as to kill it QUICKLY!, without the animal staggering around in obvious trauma.

BTW,...thanks for bringing up that other method, as it might seem a little less "hands-on" to some folks that have never done this before, or have squeemish reservations about doing it in the first place.

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

i always just grabbed the rat by it's tail,and whacked it on the edge of a table,shelf,bench,etc.basically,whatever was handy.the down side of that method,if the rat was lrge enough,centrifical force would launch it,leaving me with about an inch of rat tail-skin in my hand,and a dead,twitching rat on the floor.REALLY upset the wife.
also,i used to volunteer at a local reptile shop/exhibit(if you've been to any shows on the east coast,you might know Roark),and what we would do,is actually use 2 people.1 would throw the rat at the wall,the other would catch it in a basket on the rebound.kinda cruel,but when you hafta kill 150 rats at a time,might as well make a game of it,ya know?
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1.1 cb spotted turtles (parker(f),stinky(m))
0.0.1 cb baby red cheek mud (mr. pickles)
0.0.1 cb baby chiapas musk (chomper)
0.0.3 wc baby stinkpots (inky,blinky,&dot)
1.1 wc eastern mud turtles (george & jane)
1.0 cb eastern painted turtle (fred)
0.0.1 mississippi map (lil' dummy)
0.0.1 cb ally snapper (gamera)
0.0.2 red-eared sliders(kaelan's classroom pets,summer babysitting)
1.0 cb albino corn (rusty)
0.0.1 wc halloween crab
0.1 irritating cat (sassy )
2.0 cb children (sidney,13 & kaelan,5)
0.1 wc wife (danae,age withheld due to fears for personal safety)

"my name is inigo montoya...you killed my father.prepare to die."

thanks guys, i like the hard surface idea, the pillow case would make it easyer
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-Emily: The snake gal

This has been also discussed before, but as threads get pushed down, they are less likely to get read.

Anyways, I started just as you. Problem is that I started getting attached to my moms, some of the more "cute" hoppers, etc.

It's too easy to say, "lets keep the blond one, and use it for breeding stock, hey that one has a lightning bolt pattern on it's head or this one looks just like a little Holstein cow.

Then when the moms start looking at you with evil glares, "you may be feeding me, but you keep stealing my babies"

Frozen starts sounding more attractive by the minute. and since you care about being humane, that says you have compassion, that equals the scenario I just described.

Good luck,

Wayne A. Harvey
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1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
0.0.1 Eastern MilkSnake WC "Carmello" adult super sweet temperment
1.2.3 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids (30 plus released!)
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
2.2.0 Thamnophis radix Snow, Iowa snow & christmas snow het.
2.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - "Flame" red and white stripes
1.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis CB "Flame" & Melanistic
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua" adult WC
0.1.0 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snake (Her children were raised & released)
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
1.0.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major"Limon"
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" Growing fast!
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
2.1.0. calico RATS
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

You start buying habbitrail tunnels, crispy treats and doo dads for the mouse cages.

And it's really really over when you start giving them Ritz and pop tarts!

And never name them! unless it's "breakfast" "lunch" or "Dinner"

Wayne
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1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
0.0.1 Eastern MilkSnake WC "Carmello" adult super sweet temperment
1.2.3 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids (30 plus released!)
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
2.2.0 Thamnophis radix Snow, Iowa snow & christmas snow het.
2.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - "Flame" red and white stripes
1.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis CB "Flame" & Melanistic
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua" adult WC
0.1.0 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snake (Her children were raised & released)
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
1.0.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major"Limon"
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" Growing fast!
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
2.1.0. calico RATS
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

Nothing against anyone here or their ideas/techniques, but I'm not too fond of the pillowcase technique. The only reason is it's hard to see what part of the rat your slammin' on the floor (or whatever).

Don't get me wrong, I'm no PETA fan or anything like that, I just seem to be getting a bit softer in my old age, even though I still have a "farm" mentality.

If you're going to be putting down around 10 or so rodents at a time for freezing I strongly suggest going ahead and spending $50 - $75 to build a gas chamber (CO2). That's what I did when I first began raising my own rats. Here's a link to some info on it that you may find helpful: Annihilation Chamber

If you're only gonna be doing a few at a time I like the head/tail pull that Doug mentioned, where it severs the spinal cord, OR, grabbing the rodent by its tail & slammin' it on the floor, head first, with a twisting of the wrist that turns the rodent upside down to where the back of it's head hits the floor first.

Neither one of them are as complicated as they may sound but it may take you a few times to perfect it.

Like already mentioned, slammin' can cause blood to flow from the rodent's nose. When severing the spinal cord by jerking the rodent's head & tail in opposite directions, wearing gloves makes it easier for me. I just grab the rodent's head in one gloved-hand and either it's tail or around it's back waist, and jerk. No blood, no pulsing/twitching.

Not only are these techniques humane for the rodents, they're also humane for the snake in the sense that it eliminates the chance of injury from the rodent.

Take care!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

You could always make your own CO2 chamber:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Feed-a-snake-the-safe-way-with-CO2/

in one of my more evil feeling days i decided to put some of the major animal rights organizations on the spot, I called the National humane society, PETA, and the ASPCA, gave them a sob story about a neighbor/friend who had a bunch of mice that they could not take care of and knowing that i kept snakes, gave them to me. as a "concerned citizen against animal cruelty" I needed advice on how best to put down the mice that I had been given, painlessly and quickly. the ASPCA told me to just drop the LIVE mouse in and let "nature take its course" the National Humane Society (just another arm of PETA) suggested cervical dislocation (breaking necks). i called a few vets and they were equally divided between cervical dislocation and controlled atmosphere killing (CAK) basically a small amount of dry ice in a container with holes punched in it. place it and the mice in a larger container and in about a minute the mice will just fall asleep and expire from hypoxia. no stress, no pain, no suffering. PETA wouldn't give me a straight answer no matter what. they understood my dilemma but they only approved of euthanizing mice by lethal injection even though it would render then unfit for snake consumption. I dealt with this young girl who was completely unprepared for this ethical dilemma, poor little freak, I told her about cervical dislocation, and CAK but she insisted those were not PETA approved options. i let her of the hook after about a week, and stopped calling. Ironically PETA sent out a press release claiming a major victory at KFC in canada forcing them to use CAK in all their chicken processing plants.
Even more ironically someone answered my ad in craigslist about "adopting" unwanted mice, she was a "show mouse" breeder and had many many mice that were just not show quality. I explained to her that I really wanted the mice for food, she had no problem with it and brought over about 30 mice.....
I searched in vain for a place to buy dry ice but couldn't find any so had to go with my second preference, not pleasant by any means, but by using a pair of 14" hemostats at the neck, and simultaneously twisting the hemostats backward, and pulling the tail forward, i was able to put down 30 mice in about 15 min. by all indications death was instant. and man some of these mice are HUGE, i have at least 5 that weigh in at around 42 grams. the smallest are 22 grams, most are about 33 or so. considering an "adult" mouse at petco weighs in at 19 grams, my snakes are going to eat very well.
anyway, thought I'd share that with you.
I may have to go on "vacation" again, so if you don't hear from me for a while you'll know why.
mike
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..1 Jayne "The Hero of Canton", Ball Python
..1 Edmund Slackbladder, Mexican Kingsnake
..1 El Diablo "They haven't built a cage I can't get out of" Pueblan Milksnake
(Currently serving 25 to life in a Maryland Supermax
______________________________________________________

Me; And finally monsieur a wafer thin pinkie
El Diablo: blaggh
Me: ah sir its only 1 leetle pink one
ED: ahh, sod off! I'm full
Me: ah sir hmm? its only wafer thin?
ED: bah! i couldn't eat another thing I'm absolutely stuffed. bugger off!
Me: ah sir, sir just ...just one......?
ED: ok just one
Me just the one.
Me: voila!
Me: bon appetite!.......

yes,......I believe the situation you just referred to is better known as a "catch 22", or "red tape", or "double talk", etc...etc...

Yes,....stabbing the tiny rodents with a needle for euthanasia only makes certain PEOPLE feel a little better about the proceedure their doing,..... certainly not the animal that's having it done!

In the end,.....a good "whack", or dislocated spine is less painful than getting the crap squeezed out of you like the one so-called "authority" on the phone suggested you do.

The human thought process is funny sometimes!,......thanks for posting that story.

That also reminds me,...Dry ice is EXTREMELY dificult to acquire,......as far as I know, only certain businesses are legally able to purchase it because of the many stupid things people have been known to do with it......explosive water bottle devices, etc...

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

another part i forgot to mention, the peta girl said "a vet would probably only charge you 20 or 30 dollars per mouse". hmmmm lets see $900.00 to a vet to turn food into trash, or snapping 30 necks freezing (and then vacuum sealing, to seal in the freshness)" and having 7 weeks of rib sticking meals delivered right to my door". I would have paid $900.00 to have her watch me.

i think i also forgot the part about her telling me to donate the mice to a wildlife refuge center, she even gave me a number to call. when i called and asked what they would do with 30 mice, the nice lady said "we'd break their necks and feed them to our rescue animals" i bout fell out of my chair on that one.

some ppl just cant realize that some animals were created (or evolved) to BE food. mice and rats serve no other purpose than to be food. (they are even shaped to go down a snakes throat easily)
mike
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..1 Jayne "The Hero of Canton", Ball Python
..1 Edmund Slackbladder, Mexican Kingsnake
..1 El Diablo "They haven't built a cage I can't get out of" Pueblan Milksnake
(Currently serving 25 to life in a Maryland Supermax
______________________________________________________

Me; And finally monsieur a wafer thin pinkie
El Diablo: blaggh
Me: ah sir its only 1 leetle pink one
ED: ahh, sod off! I'm full
Me: ah sir hmm? its only wafer thin?
ED: bah! i couldn't eat another thing I'm absolutely stuffed. bugger off!
Me: ah sir, sir just ...just one......?
ED: ok just one
Me just the one.
Me: voila!
Me: bon appetite!.......

>>> "the peta girl said "a vet would probably only charge you 20 or 30 dollars per mouse"

That sounds like a great deal!..hahaha!.....I'm picturing how she could even tell you that without laughing hysterically!...maybe she actually thought it WAS a good deal,...that's the scary part!..LOL!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

yeah the fact that she was so earnest and torn by this dilemma, she obviously knew snakes had to eat mice and admitted it, but the thought of killing it yourself, instead of buying prepackaged frozen mice was just abhorrent to her. it was just hilarious to watch. and most of you have seen the condition of the petco F/T mice, i cant imagine that they are treated humanely while alive let alone what methods are used to kill them. reality is a [bleep] for those PETA folks. the world is not full of rainbows and unicorns. and a cervical dislocation or CAK is a much kinder way to die than whatever the mouse farms use. plus the conditions my mice came from are far better.
well its PETA what do you expect.
mike
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..1 Jayne "The Hero of Canton", Ball Python
..1 Edmund Slackbladder, Mexican Kingsnake
..1 El Diablo "They haven't built a cage I can't get out of" Pueblan Milksnake
(Currently serving 25 to life in a Maryland Supermax
______________________________________________________

Me; And finally monsieur a wafer thin pinkie
El Diablo: blaggh
Me: ah sir its only 1 leetle pink one
ED: ahh, sod off! I'm full
Me: ah sir hmm? its only wafer thin?
ED: bah! i couldn't eat another thing I'm absolutely stuffed. bugger off!
Me: ah sir, sir just ...just one......?
ED: ok just one
Me just the one.
Me: voila!
Me: bon appetite!.......

"because of the many stupid things people have been known to do with it......explosive water bottle devices"

Seemed fairly "smart" to me back then...

Wayne
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1.0.0 Ball Python - Python regius "Cane" Rescue
0.0.1 Eastern MilkSnake WC "Carmello" adult super sweet temperment
1.2.3 Storeria dekayi Casper, Xena, Athena, & Kids (30 plus released!)
0.0.2 Thamnophis marcianus - Checkered Garters "spot" & "Zig"
2.2.0 Thamnophis radix Snow, Iowa snow & christmas snow het.
2.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis - eastern Garters
0.0.1 Thamnophis sirtalis - "Flame" red and white stripes
1.1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis CB "Flame" & Melanistic
1.0.0 Thamnophis pickeringi - Puget Sound Garter "Sky" (adult, Sky blue)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon - Water Snake - "Aqua" adult WC
0.1.0 Storeria occipitomaculata - Red Belly snake (Her children were raised & released)
0.0.1 Amelanistic Corn Snake "CY" Juvinile CB
1.0.0. Pueblan Milk snake "Oreo" adult CB
1.0.0. ASIAN GREEN SNAKE 3' WC Cyclophiops major"Limon"
0.0.1. Savannah Monitor "CHOMPER" Growing fast!
0.1.0. Green Anole "Crystal" WC
1.0.0. K9 "ACE" Black Cockapoo
0.2.0. Feline"Felix"(R.I.P. 4/27/08) "Kaja" & "Silver"
2.1.0. calico RATS
2.4.?? Mice - Feeder farm - Crickets / fish
More herps than I could ever list out back on the land.

When I was a kid, I did ALL KINDS of things that were very similar, only many of the things I did back then were 1000 times worse too!..LOL!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"