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Hello everyone. Well I finally finished the paper I've been working on for a couple of weeks now. I hope you enjoy it and find it informative. I've saved each page as a jpeg so I will post each page on its own. Thanks to Don Soderberg, Kelly Haller, and Jud McClanahan for looking it over for me before I cut it loose. I value your thoughts and friendship greatly! Take care.
Jeremy
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net
page 2
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net
page 3
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net
page 4
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net
page 5
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net
page 6
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net
page 7
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net
page 8
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net
page 9
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net
page 10 - Thanks for looking everyone! Happy egg hatching to you all!
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net
>>There is no way to know for sure how many genes are controlling the phenotype.
Very good work here. I definitely commend you for your effort. Maybe you went on to explain this. I didn't get to read even a tenth of this paper, so maybe you mentioned it elsewhere (so forgive me if I am repeating something that you already stated), but although you may not be certain of the exact amount of genes governing a polygenic appearance, you can, however, use a genetics equation to estimate the minimum number of genes involved.
The equation is n = D^2/8Vg, where n is the number of genes, D is the difference of the means of the two parents, and Vg is the genetic variance of the F2 progeny.
For an organism such as snakes, where getting F2's and calculating their variance would take at least six or seven years, this would be a lengthy genetics project.
Again, maybe you mentioned these things in your paper. You obviously did a lot of homework here, and a paper like this has definitely been needed to explain polygenetics to herpetoculturists. Certainly, people who keep and breed the popular polygenic inherited traits such as Abbott Okeetee corns, Miami phase corns, Blue phase chondros, Red phase bulls, and in my case -- Orange phase subocs, would definitely appreciate the discussion of this topic.
Cheers,
Dusty Rhoads
Suboc.com
I didn't get to read it all, but it looks like you put quite a bit of work into this. A great addition to the forum, especially for discussion.
daveb
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in the light, you will find the road...
Jeremy,
Excellent work, I commend you for tackling this huge undertaking. I have always been curious about this polygenetic situation but lacked the space and time to do what you have done. Thanks a bunch. I think that one of the confounding attributes of the "red" genetics is the often delayed expression of color. I am often surprised at how wrong my predictions can be of who will turn red and who won't. I see yearlings that I would have never suspected would turn red that in fact became bright flowerpot red. I held a really bright red male back several years ago and finally gave him to a friend. The red on that snake was later replaced with a brown color. I suspect that somewhere along the pathway of expression for red there was some kind of failure.
My line, the "Kingsville Texas" line resulted from the breeding of a very red wild caught female to a normal same locality male. My founder female was pretty incredable whereas the male was a caramel color. This line lacks dark pigment as well as being red, making them fairly low contrast, almost to the point of being somewhat hypo-melanistic. I am currently trying to breed for a very red and very black sayi using a super dark Kankakee line with my red line. I am only as far as raising a pair of f3's and they are showing some red tinting and are only moderately contrasty. I am somewhat fearfull that the red and black pigment production pathways may be somehow inversly connected. Time will tell. I also hope to breed a Stillwater hypo/Kingsville red to his hypo red daughter (from a breeding with him and a stillwater), next year. both are hypo and both have a strong orange red coloration. As you noted there is alot of potential regarding the "red" in sayi. The red/hypo male of mine actually has gray/green saddles. Sorry to ramble on but I got caught up in your enthusiasm for the topic!
Thanks again for all of your hard work and thank you very much for sharing your findings with everyone!
Thank you John. Keepers like yourself who have been around providing help and advice for people for years now have inspired me, pushed me, and helped the passion for snakes remain the same as the day it began. I think that your project sounds excellent. Some of the reds that are coming from the Sunrise project have the dark black front thirds of their body (I call those the gettysburg bulls) and then it tapers off as you get to the tail. I think that a Red influenced northern bull would be sweet. The dark saddles contrasting with the red would (will?) be something to see. Thank you for the kind words and thank you once again for being here for this community. Take care.
Jeremy
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Jeremy Pierce
Shade Tree Exotics
shade-tree-exotics@att.net
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