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My darkest BRBs have all shed recently, so I got some new pictures of them.

First up is Mauve, a big '06 David Colling female.

Here is Zool, a very dark aberrant female. She is also an '06, but much smaller than Mauve.

Last is Gozer, Zool's brother. He is the darkest BRB I have ever seen, and is possibly Hypermelanistic. Will have to wait and see what happens with breeding trials.






-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

outstanding aubrey, there all stunning. definately want to get my hands on some of those babies.
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo

In the mail from the states
1.1 het hypo BRB
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Thanks Dave! I'm really excited to breed Gozer and Zool together. I really hope this ends up being something genetic, but if not I'm sure it could still be line bred!
-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

if it's not genetic it could be line bred and if an albino shows up breeding that dark color into the albino will change the color of the albino and make it "bleed" with reddish coloring I am sure of this.
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=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

That is definetely my plan. When I can get my hands on those albino genes, I really want to mix in the 'hypermel' look. Can you imagine a very very white BRB! Too exciting!
-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

haha you and everybody else. Will be interesting to see what Ian from outback reptiles actually sells the hets and homos for if he ever produces. I mean i guess he gonna want a fortune, but there is a fine line between what something is theoritcally worth, and what someone else is willing to pay for it. (Thus i suggest everybody holds out until the price comes down to 100bucks, then we all swoop in) deal?? lol
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo

In the mail from the states
1.1 het hypo BRB
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Does anyone know the status of his project? I am wondering if he is going to fully prove out inheritence before selling or just prove it is inheritable before selling. If proven out then I would not be surprised at 25k homo and 10k het assuming it is reccessive.

Sean.
-----
1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

seriously though, how many BRB breeders could actually afford to spend 35k, assuming you got a homo male, and het female lets say. Fair enough you should be able to get your money back in a few years, but still. Living in finland, and the market being so small here, im only just started to realise what big business this can all be in the states. Still cant believe the prices people have paid for ball python morphs. I can understand it if you BHB, Bob Clark, Ralph Davis etc, but which John Smith can actually afford them?
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo

In the mail from the states
1.1 het hypo BRB
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Wow! I didn't know BRBs got that dark! Very cool!
-----
Renee

2.0 amel & anery corns (Foxfire & Daguerre)
1.0 BRB (Loki)
1.1 Cats (Nightshade & Cuzzy)

Thanks Renee! Yeah, it's amazing the variety BRBs can have in color, with no morphs involved. Just look at this comparison of Mauve and Amethyst!

-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

They all look great, definitely a cool project. How big is Mauve, looks totally breedable right now. You been feeding her rats raised on spinach or wheaties???? And I mean lean big as opposed to fat big!!! She does not look over fed!!!!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

LOL! Yeah she has really taken off! She is definetely the biggest '06 I have. I just weighed her at 1224 grams which is 2.7 pounds! So she is definetley getting to breeding size. Her sister, Bisque, is not far behind either!

As for the rats... you'll have to consult RodentPro for their feeding regimin!
-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Are those anery? they look quite similar to this anery

Whitney,
...That snake may be called anerythristic by some people but it is a normal BRB. That color is very much influenced by a small amount of red pigmentation. If there was no red at all it would have a brown monochromatic look rather than that slight orange tint. Many of them that come in through the importers are colored like that. There is an enormous amount of normal variation in the color of these snakes.
Jeff

>>Are those anery? they look quite similar to this anery
>>

Jeff,

I know this sounds a bit off the wall, but I think a case can
be made that much of the red/orange/yello color is actually created by melanins. My amateur opinion (based on admittedly too little data to be confident) is that BRB's only produce erythrin
in the crescents and the dorsal patterns. The one picture of
an albino BRB supported this. And based on all the pics
I've seen, it seems common for the dorsal patterns to lose
the orange color as well, resulting in the dorsal pattern color
being the same as the main/ground color of the snake. Also, I
have a link to an interesting article about melanins producing reds/oranges/yellows (in birds), but I don't have the link now.
It's on my work PC. I'll post it if you or anyone else is interested, just let me know.

This is why I don't get too excited over anery's, since I think
BRB's are naturally anery for the most part. I'd much rather see a "hyper-erythristic" BRB that has bright orange crescents and dorsal patterns, which stay bright orange even as the snake ages. Like the one Sean showed the other day, now that was one I'd like to have!

Do you ever see BRB's born with white crescents develop orange
cresents as it ages? If so that would blow a hole in my theory.

Thanks,
Ed

>>Whitney,
>>...That snake may be called anerythristic by some people but it is a normal BRB. That color is very much influenced by a small amount of red pigmentation. If there was no red at all it would have a brown monochromatic look rather than that slight orange tint. Many of them that come in through the importers are colored like that. There is an enormous amount of normal variation in the color of these snakes.
>>Jeff
>>
>>>>Are those anery? they look quite similar to this anery
>>>>

interesting info everyone is giving on this topic. I did have a query about some of this though, but linked to the hypo and anery morphs.

Anery, is lack of ALL red pigment, is this correct?
hypo, is a REDUCED amount of black pigment, is this correct?

Can an anerythristic animal have yellow in it? if not, what is an animal with NO red, but has yellow?

sorry i dont know enough about melanin etc etc, so saying it in colours is easier for me

As i understand it, an anerythristic animal just has no red pigment, so it seems in theory quite obvious if something is or isnt an anery. But as for a hypo, well cant there be a very large range in this, where is the line between reduced and not so reduced amounts of black? And if you having a very hypomelanstic animal, but doesnt prove out, either recessivly or dominantly, is it still considered a Hypo?

hope that made sense, and someone can fix up the thoughts for me

cheers
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo

In the mail from the states
1.1 het hypo BRB
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

My personal opinion is that the melanins create the red/orange/yellow as well as brown/black in the ground color of BRB's, so I think the statement "an anerythristic animal just has no red pigment" is imprecise for BRB's. I think the melanins or something to do with the expression of the melanins creates a wide variety of colors, hence the wide variation of ground colors in BRB's. The one picture I saw of an Albino BRB showed orange
only in the crescents and the dorsal patterns, the rest of the snake was white. Only one anecdote/data point, but it is consistent with anery's having white crescents and dorsal patterns the same color as the ground color.

I think snakes like Kenyan Sand boas are much more straightforward with regard to this issue, since the orange is ONLY caused by erythrin. So anery's are white where the orange
should be. So with other species like Kenyan Sand boas, it might be as simple and intuitive as you've said.

As far as an anery having yellow, again, I think that is an oversimplified question and has to do with the particular species. If the snake has yellow pigment caused by xanthin,
then I guess it's possible a true anerythristic could have yellow in it. But this is where I get lost. I've read articles that seem to have erythrin and xanthin as synomyms, so that really confused me. But with snakes like BRB's, since I believe the melanins can cause yellow coloration, the xanthin is irrelevant.

Anyway, just my two cents. It would be nice if someone could
do an actual experiment on a BRB to determine the types of pigment cells present in the different parts of their skin. I really think the pigmentation/coloration for BRB's is more complex and counterintuitive than in other species like sand boas and ball pythons. I don't know if anyone really knows for sure, and certainly I can be talking out of my behind.

Great questions, thanks for the discussion. Not sure why, but I
find this stuff really interesting.

Ed

>>interesting info everyone is giving on this topic. I did have a query about some of this though, but linked to the hypo and anery morphs.
>>
>>Anery, is lack of ALL red pigment, is this correct?
>>hypo, is a REDUCED amount of black pigment, is this correct?
>>
>>Can an anerythristic animal have yellow in it? if not, what is an animal with NO red, but has yellow?
>>
>>sorry i dont know enough about melanin etc etc, so saying it in colours is easier for me
>>
>>As i understand it, an anerythristic animal just has no red pigment, so it seems in theory quite obvious if something is or isnt an anery. But as for a hypo, well cant there be a very large range in this, where is the line between reduced and not so reduced amounts of black? And if you having a very hypomelanstic animal, but doesnt prove out, either recessivly or dominantly, is it still considered a Hypo?
>>
>>hope that made sense, and someone can fix up the thoughts for me
>>
>>cheers
>>-----
>>Dave
>>
>>2.2 Normal BRBs
>>2.1 Anery BRB
>>4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
>>2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
>>
>>In the mail from the states
>>1.1 het hypo BRB
>>1.1 something special BRB
>>
>>aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Ed,
...In everything I have read about chromatophores I have not seen anything about melanophores producing any pigments other than melanin. I do think that the red heme in the blood shows through even a dark colored skin that has no or very few erythrophores and makes it look more reddish than the skin actually is. The pink color in albinism is the classic example of this effect. A dark colored skin with melanocytes is not going to be nearly as transparent as an unpigmented albino skin and so the effect is much less in these darker animals. Maybe all of the very large number of dark colored BRBs have no erythrophores and only have that little red tint to their color because of the heme in the blood showing through and I am totally wrong and as much as 25% of all BRBs are in fact truly anerythristic.
Jeff

>>My personal opinion is that the melanins create the red/orange/yellow as well as brown/black in the ground color of BRB's, so I think the statement "an anerythristic animal just has no red pigment" is imprecise for BRB's. I think the melanins or something to do with the expression of the melanins creates a wide variety of colors, hence the wide variation of ground colors in BRB's. The one picture I saw of an Albino BRB showed orange
>>only in the crescents and the dorsal patterns, the rest of the snake was white. Only one anecdote/data point, but it is consistent with anery's having white crescents and dorsal patterns the same color as the ground color.
>>
>>I think snakes like Kenyan Sand boas are much more straightforward with regard to this issue, since the orange is ONLY caused by erythrin. So anery's are white where the orange
>>should be. So with other species like Kenyan Sand boas, it might be as simple and intuitive as you've said.
>>
>>As far as an anery having yellow, again, I think that is an oversimplified question and has to do with the particular species. If the snake has yellow pigment caused by xanthin,
>>then I guess it's possible a true anerythristic could have yellow in it. But this is where I get lost. I've read articles that seem to have erythrin and xanthin as synomyms, so that really confused me. But with snakes like BRB's, since I believe the melanins can cause yellow coloration, the xanthin is irrelevant.
>>
>>Anyway, just my two cents. It would be nice if someone could
>>do an actual experiment on a BRB to determine the types of pigment cells present in the different parts of their skin. I really think the pigmentation/coloration for BRB's is more complex and counterintuitive than in other species like sand boas and ball pythons. I don't know if anyone really knows for sure, and certainly I can be talking out of my behind.
>>
>>Great questions, thanks for the discussion. Not sure why, but I
>>find this stuff really interesting.
>>
>>Ed
>>
>>
>>>>interesting info everyone is giving on this topic. I did have a query about some of this though, but linked to the hypo and anery morphs.
>>>>
>>>>Anery, is lack of ALL red pigment, is this correct?
>>>>hypo, is a REDUCED amount of black pigment, is this correct?
>>>>
>>>>Can an anerythristic animal have yellow in it? if not, what is an animal with NO red, but has yellow?
>>>>
>>>>sorry i dont know enough about melanin etc etc, so saying it in colours is easier for me
>>>>
>>>>As i understand it, an anerythristic animal just has no red pigment, so it seems in theory quite obvious if something is or isnt an anery. But as for a hypo, well cant there be a very large range in this, where is the line between reduced and not so reduced amounts of black? And if you having a very hypomelanstic animal, but doesnt prove out, either recessivly or dominantly, is it still considered a Hypo?
>>>>
>>>>hope that made sense, and someone can fix up the thoughts for me
>>>>
>>>>cheers
>>>>-----
>>>>Dave
>>>>
>>>>2.2 Normal BRBs
>>>>2.1 Anery BRB
>>>>4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
>>>>2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
>>>>
>>>>In the mail from the states
>>>>1.1 het hypo BRB
>>>>1.1 something special BRB
>>>>
>>>>aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

The reason that amelanistic snakes turn yellow as they grow is the effect of yellow fat showing through their translucent skin. When people were all excited about albino Burms many years ago I pissed off plenty of people descibing the yellow color of big albino Burms as "chicken fat yellow".
Jeff

>>Ed,
>>...In everything I have read about chromatophores I have not seen anything about melanophores producing any pigments other than melanin. I do think that the red heme in the blood shows through even a dark colored skin that has no or very few erythrophores and makes it look more reddish than the skin actually is. The pink color in albinism is the classic example of this effect. A dark colored skin with melanocytes is not going to be nearly as transparent as an unpigmented albino skin and so the effect is much less in these darker animals. Maybe all of the very large number of dark colored BRBs have no erythrophores and only have that little red tint to their color because of the heme in the blood showing through and I am totally wrong and as much as 25% of all BRBs are in fact truly anerythristic.
>>Jeff
>>
>>>>My personal opinion is that the melanins create the red/orange/yellow as well as brown/black in the ground color of BRB's, so I think the statement "an anerythristic animal just has no red pigment" is imprecise for BRB's. I think the melanins or something to do with the expression of the melanins creates a wide variety of colors, hence the wide variation of ground colors in BRB's. The one picture I saw of an Albino BRB showed orange
>>>>only in the crescents and the dorsal patterns, the rest of the snake was white. Only one anecdote/data point, but it is consistent with anery's having white crescents and dorsal patterns the same color as the ground color.
>>>>
>>>>I think snakes like Kenyan Sand boas are much more straightforward with regard to this issue, since the orange is ONLY caused by erythrin. So anery's are white where the orange
>>>>should be. So with other species like Kenyan Sand boas, it might be as simple and intuitive as you've said.
>>>>
>>>>As far as an anery having yellow, again, I think that is an oversimplified question and has to do with the particular species. If the snake has yellow pigment caused by xanthin,
>>>>then I guess it's possible a true anerythristic could have yellow in it. But this is where I get lost. I've read articles that seem to have erythrin and xanthin as synomyms, so that really confused me. But with snakes like BRB's, since I believe the melanins can cause yellow coloration, the xanthin is irrelevant.
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, just my two cents. It would be nice if someone could
>>>>do an actual experiment on a BRB to determine the types of pigment cells present in the different parts of their skin. I really think the pigmentation/coloration for BRB's is more complex and counterintuitive than in other species like sand boas and ball pythons. I don't know if anyone really knows for sure, and certainly I can be talking out of my behind.
>>>>
>>>>Great questions, thanks for the discussion. Not sure why, but I
>>>>find this stuff really interesting.
>>>>
>>>>Ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>interesting info everyone is giving on this topic. I did have a query about some of this though, but linked to the hypo and anery morphs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anery, is lack of ALL red pigment, is this correct?
>>>>>>hypo, is a REDUCED amount of black pigment, is this correct?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Can an anerythristic animal have yellow in it? if not, what is an animal with NO red, but has yellow?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>sorry i dont know enough about melanin etc etc, so saying it in colours is easier for me
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As i understand it, an anerythristic animal just has no red pigment, so it seems in theory quite obvious if something is or isnt an anery. But as for a hypo, well cant there be a very large range in this, where is the line between reduced and not so reduced amounts of black? And if you having a very hypomelanstic animal, but doesnt prove out, either recessivly or dominantly, is it still considered a Hypo?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>hope that made sense, and someone can fix up the thoughts for me
>>>>>>
>>>>>>cheers
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2.2 Normal BRBs
>>>>>>2.1 Anery BRB
>>>>>>4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
>>>>>>2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In the mail from the states
>>>>>>1.1 het hypo BRB
>>>>>>1.1 something special BRB
>>>>>>
>>>>>>aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

LOL, that is funny about the yellow... never thought of that before!

To answer the original question I know for sure Mauve is not Anery because I got her when she could still fit in a deli cup. She definetely had red/orange then. As for the other two, Gozer has some red that you can see within all the black so he is not Anery. As for Zool, she probably could pass as one, but I don't believe she is. From what I understand, Anerys are pretty noticable after their first shed, and I doubt she would have been sold by the breeder as low as she was if she was a morph.

-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

>>LOL, that is funny about the yellow... never thought of that before!
>>
>>To answer the original question I know for sure Mauve is not Anery because I got her when she could still fit in a deli cup. She definetely had red/orange then. As for the other two, Gozer has some red that you can see within all the black so he is not Anery. As for Zool, she probably could pass as one, but I don't believe she is. From what I understand, Anerys are pretty noticable after their first shed, and I doubt she would have been sold by the breeder as low as she was if she was a morph.
>>
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Aubrey Ross
>>
>>©
>>www.SlipstreamSerpents.com
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Come on, Jeff, you're such a stick in the mud. Those are supposed to be highly prized "High Yellow" or "Fading Sunset" albino morphs.

Thanks,
Ed

>>The reason that amelanistic snakes turn yellow as they grow is the effect of yellow fat showing through their translucent skin. When people were all excited about albino Burms many years ago I pissed off plenty of people descibing the yellow color of big albino Burms as "chicken fat yellow".
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>>>Ed,
>>>>...In everything I have read about chromatophores I have not seen anything about melanophores producing any pigments other than melanin. I do think that the red heme in the blood shows through even a dark colored skin that has no or very few erythrophores and makes it look more reddish than the skin actually is. The pink color in albinism is the classic example of this effect. A dark colored skin with melanocytes is not going to be nearly as transparent as an unpigmented albino skin and so the effect is much less in these darker animals. Maybe all of the very large number of dark colored BRBs have no erythrophores and only have that little red tint to their color because of the heme in the blood showing through and I am totally wrong and as much as 25% of all BRBs are in fact truly anerythristic.
>>>>Jeff
>>>>
>>>>>>My personal opinion is that the melanins create the red/orange/yellow as well as brown/black in the ground color of BRB's, so I think the statement "an anerythristic animal just has no red pigment" is imprecise for BRB's. I think the melanins or something to do with the expression of the melanins creates a wide variety of colors, hence the wide variation of ground colors in BRB's. The one picture I saw of an Albino BRB showed orange
>>>>>>only in the crescents and the dorsal patterns, the rest of the snake was white. Only one anecdote/data point, but it is consistent with anery's having white crescents and dorsal patterns the same color as the ground color.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I think snakes like Kenyan Sand boas are much more straightforward with regard to this issue, since the orange is ONLY caused by erythrin. So anery's are white where the orange
>>>>>>should be. So with other species like Kenyan Sand boas, it might be as simple and intuitive as you've said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As far as an anery having yellow, again, I think that is an oversimplified question and has to do with the particular species. If the snake has yellow pigment caused by xanthin,
>>>>>>then I guess it's possible a true anerythristic could have yellow in it. But this is where I get lost. I've read articles that seem to have erythrin and xanthin as synomyms, so that really confused me. But with snakes like BRB's, since I believe the melanins can cause yellow coloration, the xanthin is irrelevant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyway, just my two cents. It would be nice if someone could
>>>>>>do an actual experiment on a BRB to determine the types of pigment cells present in the different parts of their skin. I really think the pigmentation/coloration for BRB's is more complex and counterintuitive than in other species like sand boas and ball pythons. I don't know if anyone really knows for sure, and certainly I can be talking out of my behind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Great questions, thanks for the discussion. Not sure why, but I
>>>>>>find this stuff really interesting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>interesting info everyone is giving on this topic. I did have a query about some of this though, but linked to the hypo and anery morphs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Anery, is lack of ALL red pigment, is this correct?
>>>>>>>>hypo, is a REDUCED amount of black pigment, is this correct?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Can an anerythristic animal have yellow in it? if not, what is an animal with NO red, but has yellow?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>sorry i dont know enough about melanin etc etc, so saying it in colours is easier for me
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>As i understand it, an anerythristic animal just has no red pigment, so it seems in theory quite obvious if something is or isnt an anery. But as for a hypo, well cant there be a very large range in this, where is the line between reduced and not so reduced amounts of black? And if you having a very hypomelanstic animal, but doesnt prove out, either recessivly or dominantly, is it still considered a Hypo?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>hope that made sense, and someone can fix up the thoughts for me
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>cheers
>>>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>>>Dave
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.2 Normal BRBs
>>>>>>>>2.1 Anery BRB
>>>>>>>>4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
>>>>>>>>2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In the mail from the states
>>>>>>>>1.1 het hypo BRB
>>>>>>>>1.1 something special BRB
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

>> Maybe all of the very large number of dark colored BRBs have no >>erythrophores and only have that little red tint to their color >>because of the heme in the blood showing through and I am totally >>wrong and as much as 25% of all BRBs are in fact truly >>anerythristic.
>>Jeff

That would not surprise me at all. For a supposedly rare trait, there seem to be a whole lot of "anery" and "anery looking" BRB's out there. Okay, I'm gonna go before I piss any more people off...

I'll post that link (on the melanin pigmentation) when I get to
work.

Thanks,
Ed

maybe its what someone said before on this thread, that the easiest way to see tell if its an anery, is after that first shed, when you have the much more black/grey/white appearance. As aubrey said aswell though, i guess if someone thinks they have anery, and then get those white and grey babies, they ceratinly not going to be sold at normal prices.
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo

In the mail from the states
1.1 het hypo BRB
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

The pics of both albino BRB and CRB show lots of orange outside of the crescents and dorsal blotches. The CRB had clean edges reminiscent of albino burmese markings but still included lots of orange all over the body. The BRB is a more speckled or textured orange appearance but it still includes color over all regions(except belly presumeably) of it's body.

I believe you may have been looking at one of the pictures of the amel BRB where it was in it's "night" colors. One of the pictures from the designer m9orphs book was this way. The sides up to mid/upper crescent were white(as they are in normals at night) but above that line the background as well as the crescent/dorsal markings were orange.

I don't know what the truth on all the pigment issues is but I wanted to clear up your description/recollection of the amel BRB pics. I would post pics I have but can't post copyright/unowned media.

Sean.
-----
1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

for anyone that has a yellow phase BRB, do they have any red pigment at all on them?
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo

In the mail from the states
1.1 het hypo BRB
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

I have two BRB's that don't have a speck of red on them at all. My Yellow/Orange male, Flax is one of them:

The other one is a female, Amethyst. She is more of an extremely light orange:

These pictures are a bit deceiving, as Flax look darker than Amethyst. He is actually a bit lighter than her.... I gotta get a better picture of him.

Now whether one would consider the fact that they are somewhat "orange-ish" to indicate that red is involved, I don't know. I just know that they are very pretty!

I think Dave has a male on loan that might be a touch more yellow than Flax. It's hard to say without seeing him in the same lighting as mine.
-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

Thanks Sean. Can you tell me the name of the book? Do you know if it is still in print? Were the albinos (with the orange speckling) juveniles?

Take this for what it's worth (ie, from a guy who has only owned
one BRB in his life), I think it would be interesting to develop a line that maintains its bright orange crescents and dorsal patterns (ie, erythrin production?) throughout adulthood. Maybe Jeff or Dave has tried, I don't know, but that would interest me much more than an anery. But if you can do it, I promise I'll buy one from you.

Thanks,
Ed

>>The pics of both albino BRB and CRB show lots of orange outside of the crescents and dorsal blotches. The CRB had clean edges reminiscent of albino burmese markings but still included lots of orange all over the body. The BRB is a more speckled or textured orange appearance but it still includes color over all regions(except belly presumeably) of it's body.
>>
>>I believe you may have been looking at one of the pictures of the amel BRB where it was in it's "night" colors. One of the pictures from the designer m9orphs book was this way. The sides up to mid/upper crescent were white(as they are in normals at night) but above that line the background as well as the crescent/dorsal markings were orange.
>>
>>I don't know what the truth on all the pigment issues is but I wanted to clear up your description/recollection of the amel BRB pics. I would post pics I have but can't post copyright/unowned media.
>>
>>Sean.
>>-----
>>1.1 BRB
>>1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
>>0.1 Silver TPRS
>>1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
>>0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
>>0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
>>1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
>>0.1 Reeve's Turtle
>>0.2 Amstaff's
>>1.0 Pudytat

i guess what im getting at, is there doesnt seem to be some set standards,not just in BRBs, but always see people talking about corns snakes, and debating what colour it actually is. I fiqure once something is proven out, there should be a set standard for it. Of course there is variation, but i think it makes it easier for buyers and sellers to know exactly what they are getting. Maybe it cant work like this with reptiles, too much varitation. But when i used to breed Rex Rabbits, there was probably over 30 colours back then. And if you knew all the different forms you could work out exactly what the colour was, just having a look at the rabbit, and the different fur layers.

Some colours/patterns in the BRBs are obvious, ie striped or albino. As the one of the pictures listed in this thread was called an Anery, guess what im asking is what way can there be to actually work out what something is? So a seller knows exactly what they are getting?
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo

In the mail from the states
1.1 het hypo BRB
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

It's hard to say. I'm thoroughly convinced that this issue is much more complex with BRB's than it is with some other snakes. For example, different genes might control different parts of the patterns. Look at Dave's Fluffy. What caused that? Is there a gene controlling the dorsal pattern color that is defective? Or was there some other cause?

Are there separate genes that control the erythrin production in
the crescents, dorsal patterns, and/or rest of the body?? If there are, then simply calling a BRB an "anery" may be somewhat
nebulous.

Also, many snakes change color as they get older, and from the many pictures I've seen, many (most?) adults appear to lose the orange in the crescents and/or dorsal patterns. So a "normal" baby might "turn into" an "anery" if the erythrin production stops at some point. Or maybe there is some other issue where
erythrin is produced, it's just being blocked from our vision.
And as Jeff astutely pointed out, there could be other physiological factors that contribute to a snake's coloration.

I think there are a lot more questions than answers here.

Personally, I'd rather see *enhanced/increased* erythrin rather than reduced erythrin. I'd prefer to see MORE/BRIGHTER orange, not less. And I got a nice anery/anery-looking rainbow boa - my Argentinian. And it cost me $100. Just my opinion, I respect
the opinions of others who disagree. I can see the other side of this, there is an exciting aspect to figuring this stuff out and/or working towards a ghost (hypo and anery) morph. It's all fun.

Thanks,
Ed

>>
>>Some colours/patterns in the BRBs are obvious, ie striped or albino. As the one of the pictures listed in this thread was called an Anery, guess what im asking is what way can there be to actually work out what something is? So a seller knows exactly what they are getting?
>>-----
>>Dave

Ed i agree with you about the orange i love that hypo orange and Dave's Bam Bam is a-freaking-mazing...

however if and when the time comes to produce a nice all light gray, silver, and black anery brb with lots of contrast that doesnt lose it color.... ohhh man ill be all over that.

and also the more pictures you post of mendoza the more and more i thinking about ARBs lol
-----
-Stephen-

0.1 soon to be wifey (hopefully)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer-wifey's pooch)
1.0 norm corn (Jake aka grumpy old terdhead)
0.1 col redtail boa (Dixie-my baby girl)
0.1 ball python (Bella- wifey's baby girl)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Saphira)

hopeful for not to distant future:
--Brazilian rainbow boas
2 or 3 more? maybe a breeding trio or two pair
-- something for the wifey... my list got to big...

The book is "Designer Morphs" and is still sold. If you google the name you will find the books website. The books homepage even has a pic of a albino BRB showing it's night colors(or lack of color) like I mentioned. Oh and some if not all of the albino BRB photo's I've looked at were adult.

From what I've seen loss of color(red, orange, or yellow) is not something that normally occurs. The dark phase BRB's might be an exception to a degree but most color up as they grow. Both the hi-orange and hi-red pghases maintain tons of color in crescents, dorsal blotches and normally background color. If you want to see lots of examples of red or orange BRB's check out Daves photo gallery of his collection on the Rainbow's R Us website(sponsor of forum above).

As far as the identifying of anery babies there is an easy way but only when they are very young. As babies anery BRB's have the silver and black coloration you would expect of anery in any other species. As aneries grow the silver turns into a brown color but the crescents themselves remain white. So if you are buying an anery and do not totally trust the source make sure you get the snake while it is still young enough to be visisbly identifiable.

Sean.
-----
1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

Sean,
....You wrote:
"As far as the identifying of anery babies there is an easy way but only when they are very young. As babies anery BRB's have the silver and black coloration you would expect of anery in any other species. As aneries grow the silver turns into a brown color but the crescents themselves remain white. So if you are buying an anery and do not totally trust the source make sure you get the snake while it is still young enough to be visisbly identifiable."

...What am I missing here? You are going to have to explain to me why I would want to spend extra money for a snake that will grow up to look so much like a normal plain brown BRB that I cannot tell it from a normal plain brown BRB.
Jeff

You're preaching to the choir here Jeff.

I don't have any interest in the aneries unless some combination comes out of them which is visually identifiable and also looks good to me. The only possibility I see on the horizon there is if you got a BRB holding the pearl pattern side blotches as an adult then the anery white crescents might be striking enough to be cool. If that happened I would probably want to see that combination bred for darker colors so as to even further enhance the contrast. But in general I have no interest in the aneries even though they do look great as babies.

Sean.
-----
1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

you ever bought a het??
-----
Dave

2.2 Normal BRBs
2.1 Anery BRB
4.4 66% poss het anery BRB
2.5 66% poss het new european line hypo

In the mail from the states
1.1 het hypo BRB
1.1 something special BRB

aims to work out what all my 66% hets really are, and then go from there. Sky the limit, well maybe

Hey Sean,

Thanks for the info.

Just to clarify, I'm talking about the color inside the dorsal
patterns as opposed to the color immediately outside the dorsal
patterns/circles. I'm not saying there is NO COLOR in these patterns, I'm proposing/speculating that there is little to no erythrin in the dorsal patterns of most adults, relative to babies. I looked at Dave's gallery as well as pics of maybe 10 other adults, and just about all of thm pictured have the same color inside the dorsal patterns as immediately outside the dorsal patterns. Most pics of adults (at least that I've seen) show the same thing. That's why I liked your BRB so much, I think the ones that have color inside the dorsal patterns that is brighter than the ground color are really nice!

I tried posting the link to that article on melanins, but for some reason it got yanked. I'll PM it to you if you are interested, it's actually a really neat article. Basically it
says that melanins alone can produce a wide variety of colors,
including red, orange, yellow and even green. I'm not questioning that adult BRB's are colorful. I'm questioning what causes the coloration, and how these causes changes as the snake ages. Also, I believe there could be different genes controlling the color/erythrin inside the dorsal patterns and the crescents.
This could be another reason there is so much variation in BRB's.

How many albino BRB's are out there? I think this would be a little easier to figure out if there were more around. I guess
another possibility that might confuse things is that all individuals might be different, and can have various amounts of erythrin as well as melanins.

Thanks,
Ed

>>The book is "Designer Morphs" and is still sold. If you google the name you will find the books website. The books homepage even has a pic of a albino BRB showing it's night colors(or lack of color) like I mentioned. Oh and some if not all of the albino BRB photo's I've looked at were adult.
>>
>>From what I've seen loss of color(red, orange, or yellow) is not something that normally occurs. The dark phase BRB's might be an exception to a degree but most color up as they grow. Both the hi-orange and hi-red pghases maintain tons of color in crescents, dorsal blotches and normally background color. If you want to see lots of examples of red or orange BRB's check out Daves photo gallery of his collection on the Rainbow's R Us website(sponsor of forum above).
>>
>>As far as the identifying of anery babies there is an easy way but only when they are very young. As babies anery BRB's have the silver and black coloration you would expect of anery in any other species. As aneries grow the silver turns into a brown color but the crescents themselves remain white. So if you are buying an anery and do not totally trust the source make sure you get the snake while it is still young enough to be visisbly identifiable.
>>
>>Sean.
>>-----
>>1.1 BRB
>>1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
>>0.1 Silver TPRS
>>1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
>>0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
>>0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
>>1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
>>0.1 Reeve's Turtle
>>0.2 Amstaff's
>>1.0 Pudytat

Ed emailed this link to me. It is a very long read but within the first page there is plenty to make you question what you think you know about coloration in animals.
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3793/is_200304/ai_n9166785

>>Hey Sean,
>>
>>Thanks for the info.
>>
>>Just to clarify, I'm talking about the color inside the dorsal
>>patterns as opposed to the color immediately outside the dorsal
>>patterns/circles. I'm not saying there is NO COLOR in these patterns, I'm proposing/speculating that there is little to no erythrin in the dorsal patterns of most adults, relative to babies. I looked at Dave's gallery as well as pics of maybe 10 other adults, and just about all of thm pictured have the same color inside the dorsal patterns as immediately outside the dorsal patterns. Most pics of adults (at least that I've seen) show the same thing. That's why I liked your BRB so much, I think the ones that have color inside the dorsal patterns that is brighter than the ground color are really nice!
>>
>>I tried posting the link to that article on melanins, but for some reason it got yanked. I'll PM it to you if you are interested, it's actually a really neat article. Basically it
>>says that melanins alone can produce a wide variety of colors,
>>including red, orange, yellow and even green. I'm not questioning that adult BRB's are colorful. I'm questioning what causes the coloration, and how these causes changes as the snake ages. Also, I believe there could be different genes controlling the color/erythrin inside the dorsal patterns and the crescents.
>>This could be another reason there is so much variation in BRB's.
>>
>>How many albino BRB's are out there? I think this would be a little easier to figure out if there were more around. I guess
>>another possibility that might confuse things is that all individuals might be different, and can have various amounts of erythrin as well as melanins.
>>
>>
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>>>The book is "Designer Morphs" and is still sold. If you google the name you will find the books website. The books homepage even has a pic of a albino BRB showing it's night colors(or lack of color) like I mentioned. Oh and some if not all of the albino BRB photo's I've looked at were adult.
>>>>
>>>>From what I've seen loss of color(red, orange, or yellow) is not something that normally occurs. The dark phase BRB's might be an exception to a degree but most color up as they grow. Both the hi-orange and hi-red pghases maintain tons of color in crescents, dorsal blotches and normally background color. If you want to see lots of examples of red or orange BRB's check out Daves photo gallery of his collection on the Rainbow's R Us website(sponsor of forum above).
>>>>
>>>>As far as the identifying of anery babies there is an easy way but only when they are very young. As babies anery BRB's have the silver and black coloration you would expect of anery in any other species. As aneries grow the silver turns into a brown color but the crescents themselves remain white. So if you are buying an anery and do not totally trust the source make sure you get the snake while it is still young enough to be visisbly identifiable.
>>>>
>>>>Sean.
>>>>-----
>>>>1.1 BRB
>>>>1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
>>>>0.1 Silver TPRS
>>>>1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
>>>>0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
>>>>0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
>>>>1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
>>>>0.1 Reeve's Turtle
>>>>0.2 Amstaff's
>>>>1.0 Pudytat

Thanks for posting the link, Jeff.

I was sitting at my desk eating lunch, and I realized that I have red/orange hair! Well, I obviously knew that, but how is that possible? Humans don't produce erythrin.

I did a little more web searching and found that supposedly the
melanin that produces red/yellow/orange (pheomelanin) has not been reported in reptiles, although I don't know how many reptiles were actually tested. Supposedly mammals, birds and
humans have this pheomelanin. Why reptiles wouldn't have it but
bird and mammals do is interesting in itself.

Anyway, I think it would be a cool research project to study
the pigmentation cells in a BRB's, given the wide variey of colors they come in. Does anyone have any ties to an academic institution that might be interested in doing this as a research project? If not, I'm thinking of maybe just contacting biology dept's at universities?

Thanks,
Ed

>>Ed emailed this link to me. It is a very long read but within the first page there is plenty to make you question what you think you know about coloration in animals.
>>findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3793/is_200304/ai_n9166785

Definitely keep us posted if you get it off the ground. It would be nice to have some testing done. In addition to contacting universities as far as interest you probably should look into existing grants available and/or contact groups that might issue grants/funding for the research.

Best of luck,

Sean.
-----
1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

Thanks. But if we figure this stuff out, we need to find another topic to blather on about.

Thanks,
Ed

>>Definitely keep us posted if you get it off the ground. It would be nice to have some testing done. In addition to contacting universities as far as interest you probably should look into existing grants available and/or contact groups that might issue grants/funding for the research.
>>
>>Best of luck,
>>
>>Sean.
>>-----
>>1.1 BRB
>>1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
>>0.1 Silver TPRS
>>1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
>>0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
>>0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
>>1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
>>0.1 Reeve's Turtle
>>0.2 Amstaff's
>>1.0 Pudytat

That red hair is a natural adaptation so that people would pick on you when you were a kid and help to develop your character. I know just the person to talk to about getting some post grad zoology students "interested" in this subject. I worked last night and slept today and now see that apparently another of the Rainbow Boa forum high drama threads has been deleted. A guy cannot sleep and expect to keep up.
Jeff

>>Thanks for posting the link, Jeff.
>>
>>I was sitting at my desk eating lunch, and I realized that I have red/orange hair! Well, I obviously knew that, but how is that possible? Humans don't produce erythrin.
>>
>>I did a little more web searching and found that supposedly the
>>melanin that produces red/yellow/orange (pheomelanin) has not been reported in reptiles, although I don't know how many reptiles were actually tested. Supposedly mammals, birds and
>>humans have this pheomelanin. Why reptiles wouldn't have it but
>>bird and mammals do is interesting in itself.
>>
>>Anyway, I think it would be a cool research project to study
>>the pigmentation cells in a BRB's, given the wide variey of colors they come in. Does anyone have any ties to an academic institution that might be interested in doing this as a research project? If not, I'm thinking of maybe just contacting biology dept's at universities?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Ed emailed this link to me. It is a very long read but within the first page there is plenty to make you question what you think you know about coloration in animals.
>>>>findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3793/is_200304/ai_n9166785

Interestingly enough, there is a theory that red hair originally came from Neanderthals that interbred with homo sapiens. (Honestly, I'm not making this up, just google "red hair neanderthal".) My wave always accused me of being a caveman.

Do you really know someone who might be interested in a BRB pigmentation project? That would be awesome. I might have
some contacts at NC State.

For some melanin related humor, check this out:

www.dizzler.com/music/Stephen_Lynch/Vanilla_Ice_Cream

Some classic lyrics!

Thanks,
Ed

>>That red hair is a natural adaptation so that people would pick on you when you were a kid and help to develop your character. I know just the person to talk to about getting some post grad zoology students "interested" in this subject. I worked last night and slept today and now see that apparently another of the Rainbow Boa forum high drama threads has been deleted. A guy cannot sleep and expect to keep up.
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>>>Thanks for posting the link, Jeff.
>>>>
>>>>I was sitting at my desk eating lunch, and I realized that I have red/orange hair! Well, I obviously knew that, but how is that possible? Humans don't produce erythrin.
>>>>
>>>>I did a little more web searching and found that supposedly the
>>>>melanin that produces red/yellow/orange (pheomelanin) has not been reported in reptiles, although I don't know how many reptiles were actually tested. Supposedly mammals, birds and
>>>>humans have this pheomelanin. Why reptiles wouldn't have it but
>>>>bird and mammals do is interesting in itself.
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, I think it would be a cool research project to study
>>>>the pigmentation cells in a BRB's, given the wide variey of colors they come in. Does anyone have any ties to an academic institution that might be interested in doing this as a research project? If not, I'm thinking of maybe just contacting biology dept's at universities?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Ed emailed this link to me. It is a very long read but within the first page there is plenty to make you question what you think you know about coloration in animals.
>>>>>>findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3793/is_200304/ai_n9166785

>>Interestingly enough, there is a theory that red hair originally came from Neanderthals that interbred with homo sapiens. (Honestly, I'm not making this up, just google "red hair neanderthal".) My wave always accused me of being a caveman.
>>
>>Do you really know someone who might be interested in a BRB pigmentation project? That would be awesome. I might have
>>some contacts at NC State.
>>
>>For some melanin related humor, check this out:
>>
>>www.dizzler.com/music/Stephen_Lynch/Vanilla_Ice_Cream
>>
>>Some classic lyrics!
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>>>That red hair is a natural adaptation so that people would pick on you when you were a kid and help to develop your character. I know just the person to talk to about getting some post grad zoology students "interested" in this subject. I worked last night and slept today and now see that apparently another of the Rainbow Boa forum high drama threads has been deleted. A guy cannot sleep and expect to keep up.
>>>>Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks for posting the link, Jeff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I was sitting at my desk eating lunch, and I realized that I have red/orange hair! Well, I obviously knew that, but how is that possible? Humans don't produce erythrin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I did a little more web searching and found that supposedly the
>>>>>>melanin that produces red/yellow/orange (pheomelanin) has not been reported in reptiles, although I don't know how many reptiles were actually tested. Supposedly mammals, birds and
>>>>>>humans have this pheomelanin. Why reptiles wouldn't have it but
>>>>>>bird and mammals do is interesting in itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyway, I think it would be a cool research project to study
>>>>>>the pigmentation cells in a BRB's, given the wide variey of colors they come in. Does anyone have any ties to an academic institution that might be interested in doing this as a research project? If not, I'm thinking of maybe just contacting biology dept's at universities?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>Ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ed emailed this link to me. It is a very long read but within the first page there is plenty to make you question what you think you know about coloration in animals.
>>>>>>>>findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3793/is_200304/ai_n9166785
>>
>>

I have not been put in time out for months now...

I have been suspended like 10 times from the forums lol

>>That red hair is a natural adaptation so that people would pick on you when you were a kid and help to develop your character. I know just the person to talk to about getting some post grad zoology students "interested" in this subject. I worked last night and slept today and now see that apparently another of the Rainbow Boa forum high drama threads has been deleted. A guy cannot sleep and expect to keep up.
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>>>Thanks for posting the link, Jeff.
>>>>
>>>>I was sitting at my desk eating lunch, and I realized that I have red/orange hair! Well, I obviously knew that, but how is that possible? Humans don't produce erythrin.
>>>>
>>>>I did a little more web searching and found that supposedly the
>>>>melanin that produces red/yellow/orange (pheomelanin) has not been reported in reptiles, although I don't know how many reptiles were actually tested. Supposedly mammals, birds and
>>>>humans have this pheomelanin. Why reptiles wouldn't have it but
>>>>bird and mammals do is interesting in itself.
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, I think it would be a cool research project to study
>>>>the pigmentation cells in a BRB's, given the wide variey of colors they come in. Does anyone have any ties to an academic institution that might be interested in doing this as a research project? If not, I'm thinking of maybe just contacting biology dept's at universities?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>Ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Ed emailed this link to me. It is a very long read but within the first page there is plenty to make you question what you think you know about coloration in animals.
>>>>>>findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3793/is_200304/ai_n9166785
-----
=========================================================
Roberts Realm Of Reptile Research
=========================================================
Thanks,

I opened my mouth and out flowed a melody black.

Yeah I love the hi-contrast(betwen dorsal saddles and background color) with hi-color specimens best also. I think Jeff may have a number of hi-contrast specimens, if I remeber correctly, so might give his gallery a gander if you haven't already.

As far as color dispersal I am fairly sure that it is polygenic. Just like in hi-color phases the hi-contrast seem to arrive in a mix with low contrast/color specimens in the same litters. Essentially you can hedge the odds but you will still always get some normals in each litter also.

I suspect that the colors(at least orange and red) are not the result of melanin. The reason is if you look at the hypo specimens the black and browns are reduced but not the yellows, reds, or oranges. If red,yellow, and orange were generated by melanins then it means that the hypo gene is only interfering with the preocesses of the melanins causing the black and brown while unaffecting the processes of the melanins doing the red/yellow/orange. While it is certainly possible (as we've seen with Tpos, Tneg, and multiple strains of amel in a species where the single and double homozygous specimens are visually distinct) I do not view it as the most likely explanation.

As far as I know Ian has the only currently existing albino BRB which was an import. Of course he could have babies soon/already that we just haven't heard about yet.

Sean.
-----
1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

Aubrey,
The snakes look great.
I am glad they are working out for you.

I don't know about the extra darkness, But I feel that the oddball patterning will be passed on to the offspring in some way or another.

Best wishes, and keep up the good work,
BHH
-----
Bryan Hummel
www.rainbowboas.com