Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i am in building mode, looking for some reacquisitions from my 2006 downsizing and getting some totally new stuff (at least to my collection, hahaha). I have the "reacqui's" under control but have some questions about deppei and jani bloodlines. I would like to get some of each and there are good breeders out there that I have already talked to (thank you very much, guys). Anyhow, here's a couple questions for the crowd...

-how many bloodlines of origin are there for deppei and for jani?
I'm not looking for "I got mine from from joe's herps", but founding stock if possible.

-does anyone have recommendations for particular bloodlines -regarding color, pattern, fertility, etc.?

-any other input would be most appreciated, feel free to send email if necessary.

Thanks,
daveb

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in the light, you will find the road...

Here is what I know (and it isn't much)......

I think that most of the deppei deppei stock are from a couple of guys who collected on some university permits in the 70's maybe. The fellow over at split rock herps has a unique locality(can't recall but just call him and ask), rio Conches?? something like that. Those animals are quite nice looking and have some scalation anomolies I am told, (four prefrontals?......Call him)

Vivid stock are pretty nice. Just remember to keep them a bit cooler with access to a thermal gradient.

Jani are variable. I got Mark bell stock in the mid 90's very nice looking, no locality data. They are a mix of Kardon's stock and some german breeder's blood line. Shop around. Mine have orange heads and really cool coloration in general. There are also some neat, pale ground color blood lines that are nice looking.

Have fun, I wish that I had space to expand.

JG

The deppei from Split Rock that you are referring to are called "Rio Conchos, Chihuahua, Mexican Mountain Pine Snakes".

What I know about them is that the originals were collected about 5 years (maybe a little longer) ago by one of my best friends and his father in Chihuahua, Mexico. As far as I know, the ones that they collected were the only ones that have ever been found.
Also, I'm fairly sure that there is bloodwork being done on them to determine if they are possibly a new subspecies.
All I know about their physical characteristics is that they have exeptionally high contrast...different from any others out there. I don't know about any further differences in they appearance though.

Anyway, I figured I'd share what I knew about them.
Jim at Split Rock I'm sure could give you more specific info, including husbandry differences.

Later,

Alex

That sounds about right in terms of what I have heard. They are really nice looking animals but my money is on the genitic work not bearing out a valid new subspecies. IMHO they are not all that different than many deppei have seen from other localities. They seem to have colorful tails but I can show you images of P.d.deppei from other localities that look exactly the same. I do not intend to in any way diminish that locality or their look but I am simply not sold on them being so incredibly unique in apperance, again this is just my opinion and I am in love with that locality so I want to avoid stepping on anyones toes.

One of the characteristics of this subspecies(P.d.deppei) is their incredable variability. In a 1990's article published in Vivarium the authors coined the term "variable pine snake". I have hatched absolute black and white animals, animals with banana green ground color, individuals with blazing orange tails and pinkish heads, etc. all from the same parents!

John Cherry has alot of experience with these guys and can attest to the extreme variability.......John? are you reading this? Jump in....

my two cents...........even with the high price of copper that still isn't worth much!

The animal below is one example of a simple recesive gene for hypo-melanism and pattern aberancy.

I lack the space but I know some folks are crossing in the Rio Conchos animals with these Los minbres Durango animals and we should see results of that in the next couple of years...............

"One of the characteristics of this subspecies(P.d.deppei) is their incredable variability. In a 1990's article published in Vivarium the authors coined the term "variable pine snake". I have hatched absolute black and white animals, animals with banana green ground color, individuals with blazing orange tails and pinkish heads, etc. all from the same parents!"

I can certainly agree with this statement totally, having also hatched many varied looking P.d.deppei offspring all from the same pairings.

My original/founding deppei and jani stock originate from Lloyd Lemke.I imported them in 1997 and i believe Lemke got his from legal wild caught stock collected by Kardon and/or Limburg.

RGDS.........AL

I agree with you one hundred percent that it is very unlikely that they will be classified as a new subspecies.
I think they figured that it couldn't hurt to run bloodwork on them, and I don't blame them for that.

Deppei is definietly a hugely variable group of snakes, and I think that these will just turn out to be very nice locality animals.

Alex

so if they were just collected 5 or 6 years ago how did they get here legally?

Shannon

Check with Split rock but if I have the story correct, those animals came in on a University permit........Arkansas? or Louisiana maybe?

I know that they are totally legal.

Thanks for the info.

...maybe to increase your space you should send some stuff out onto breeder's loans. set up some terms with people you trust. when some stuff comes back, send something else out. easy for me to say, hahaha, and easier said than done.

btw, I got two emails bounced back that I sent out to you. Maybe I don't have your correct address. Anyhow, I was curious about the pair of mugtius you have going this year. If you have eggs, please let me know.

thanks a million.

daveb
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in the light, you will find the road...