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THE INDEPENDENT (Dublin, Ireland) 09 June 08 Stranded divers had to fight off killer lizard before rescue
European scuba divers swept away in strong currents survived 12 hours in shark-infested waters and then scrambled onto a remote Indonesian island where they faced yet another threat: a Komodo dragon.
The divers -- three from Britain and one each from France and Sweden -- came face-to-face with the giant, carnivorous lizard on Rinca island's palm-fringed beach, and fought it off by pelting it with rocks and pieces of wood..
"Luckily, they were able to chase it away," said a port official.
The beasts have sharp, serrated teeth and often come out when they smell something new, including humans, whom they've been known to kill.
The divers encountered treacherous currents after plunging from their wooden boat off Tatawa island on Thursday afternoon. They drifted 20 miles from their dive site before swimming to Rinca, their last chance to avoid being swept into the open ocean.
"We struggled against the current for several hours, but eventually stopped," said 31-year-old Laurent Pinel, from France. "We tied ourselves together by our diving vests to preserve energy."
They ran into the Komodo dragon on Friday afternoon. The next day, rescuers plying the waters in more than 30 boats spotted them waving frantically on the shore and took them to Flores island for medical treatment.
The area where the diving trip took place is famous for its rich marine diversity, including sharks, manta rays and sea turtles. But it is also known for its treacherous and unpredictable seas.
It is in a place where the Indian and Pacific Oceans meet, creating currents that converge and separate. Whirlpools and eddies can pull divers downwards.
"We're safe but absolutely exhausted and dehydrated," said Charlotte Allin, a 25-year-old British diver.
Komodo dragons, which can grow up to 10 feet long and weigh as much as 365 pounds, are only found in the wild on Rinca and Komodo island.
Thousands of tourists visit the area in eastern Indonesia each year to see the lizards in their natural habitat on the arid and rocky island.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/stranded-divers-had-to-fight-off-killer-lizard-before-rescue-1402491.html

BBC (London, UK) 09 June 08 How dangerous is a Komodo dragon?
A group of divers stranded on a remote island had to fight off a "man-eating" Komodo dragon. How dangerous are these creatures really?
When three Britons were washed up on a remote Indonesian island, their relief must have been immense.
For 12 hours they and two other divers had been clinging to each other in shark-infested waters after being carried from their diving boat by currents.
But wracked by dehydration and exhaustion, their joy at reaching Rinca island was short-lived when a Komodo dragon appeared on the beach. They pelted it with rocks and it retreated, and the five divers were later rescued.
Komodo dragons are known to have killed and eaten humans. So how dangerous are are they?
Dr Ian Stephen is assistant curator of herpetology (reptiles and amphibians) at London Zoo, where he looks after two Komodo dragons. Raja is an adult male, 10 years old, and Raja's daughter Sayang is nearly two.
Potentially they are very dangerous animals, he says, but it helped that the divers stayed on the beach.
"They will eat anything that washes up on the beach. That's why these people would have been in danger. When you have animals on the brink of starvation they will be very aggressive and humans are not very powerful.
"If you have a couple of people throwing stones or sticks, that can work as long as you are only dealing with one or two [dragons]. They were in danger but they did the right thing.
"They can move incredibly quickly over short distances. The danger would have been when people started looking for food and headed inland, into long grass."
A Komodo dragon's favoured method of attack is to lie in the bushes and long grass and then pounce on their prey, usually deer, feral pigs or water buffalo. It also eats carrion.
Pound for pound they are incredibly powerful, says Dr Stephen, the largest lizard in the world measuring up to three metres long (9ft 10ins) and 120kg (265 lbs). And they are strong swimmers so could follow a fleeing human into the sea.
"Generally they attack their prey but don't kill it there and then. They have a poisonous saliva full of different bacteria, about 80 species of bacteria. So in a couple of days septicaemia sets in and the prey dies."
Contrary to some reports they do not spit venom, he says, but their teeth are shark-like and leave a very nasty and poisonous bite. If the wounded prey gets away the dragon can follow a blood trail a couple of miles away.
A kill usually attracts many dragons who feed according to their own hierarchy.
Humans living on the islands within the national park habitat of the dragons have learnt how to adapt to the dangers. Their houses are on stilts.
Although attacks on humans are rare, an eight-year-old German boy was mauled to death there in 2007.
Dr Stephen says a Komodo dragon in the wild would not hesitate to kill and eat a human if they wanted to, but Raja has been trained and is quite tame.
He is fed deer, rabbits or wild boar every four to eight weeks. He eats the whole prey - skin, bone and hair. Sometimes he regurgitates some of the bones.
He seems to enjoy human interaction, especially being stroked, but there are occasional, sharp reminders of his strength.
"When Raja has a blood test, it takes two men to restrain his tail. You can't imagine the power in this animal and he's only 54kg. Imagine one that was 120kg."
In the wild, the tail is used as defence or to compete with other dragons for the meat of a big kill.
Fortunately, the dragons on Rinca island were denied a human meal at the weekend.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7443648.stm

Great story-Thanks for sharing!

Does 'heirachy' imply social structure?

Susan.

most lizards have very complex social structures. The answer is YES they are very social. This is a real husbandry problem for some people......TC

Thanks Tom. I'd like to know more about it as far as, is it fair to keep a solitary animal? At what age/size will it be safe for me to introduce my smaller- 20" BT(shy and timid-female?) to my 42" BT male(very robust and bold)? I'd heard they will kill and even eat much smaller ones, so have been fearful to introduce them.

Also, what would be the best sized group of monitors, to encourage more 'natural' behaviors? Trio, or more?

Thanks,

Susan.

First I wouldn't introduce a small lizard in a cage with a large lizard particularly if its the large lizards cage. The lizard in a cage for a long period of time believes its his cage and would be more territorial than introducing both into a new cage. What Ernie says in his posts is true. They are always looking out for themselves first BUT there is still lots of other social behaviours going on that have a lot to do with "life events" as FR would put it. Social interactions have everything to do with reproduction. I'm not so eloquent with words as to be able to explain this exactly. The fact is they live in colonies and interact on a daily basis. Perhaps someone that is more eloquent with words can explain this a little more clearly......TC

Most folks would rather believe what they read, over what they see. Or in many cases, they only read and actually do not keep monitors, singly or in groups. Because they are well read, they think they have the experience of many.

The problem is, there is not many who actually have longtern successful experience. And more, even fewer that have SPACE.

Sir, I know you understand the value of space with larger reptiles.

Then think about 2.3 croc monitors in a 10 by 20 cage. I don't care how social an animal is, even that large a cage is toooooooo small.

So I test small monitors in groups, hmmmmmmm I know, that is too much common sense for most.

So my group of eight, 2.6. Caudo/gilleni crosses. Last year, I narrated their summer. I started out, with 0.0.6, which appeared like 0.6.0, then I added a male, and then it became 2.5.0, then I added another female, to make it, 2.6

Last year, all females laid at least 6 clutches, most laid 8. A couple laid a few more, that I did not dig up until this summer.

Now, all six females are gravid and two are laying right now. They are 18 months old.

Over the winter the females doubled in size.

Now for the cage, I keep them in a small cage, 3 feet wide, by 6 feet long. Sounds small for 8 lizards, hey? But these lizards only get a foot long. So the short side is three times their lenght and the long side is six times their lenght.

Now lets look at croc monitors, females get 6 to 7 feet, That would make the cage 18 to 21 feet wide, by 36 to 42 feet long. While that actually sounds huge, the larger the monitor, the more room they need per size. So in effect, that 21 ft. wide and 42 ft. long cage is less roomy then the caudolenis cage.

To me, the biggist problem is, most of these folks deal with large monitors and put them in small cages, then make all manner of statements, then back them up, but trying to say its normal for wild monitors.

Also as you have seen here, many say they may be social in captivity but not in nature. Which to me is very funny, the reason its funny is, THIS IS CAPTIVITY, we really should care what works for them HERE. AS I have told those who oppose me, I could really careless what they do in nature. Which means, I really care about what they do here in MY care.

I really do care what they do in nature, and most of what I do IS based on what I saw them doing in nature. But I am not going to let overthere get in the way of overhere. When I am repeatedly successful overhere. hahahahahahahahaha

For Susan, I guess I need to break out some social pics, are you interested?

I do not mean to be offense to anyone including academics or experts, but its sort of offense that they dismiss, not me, but all the continued success my monitors have exhibited over almost two decades. They tend to say, he is really really good with monitors(based on my success) but he knows nothing about monitors. This statement makes me laugh. I know nothing, but have two decades(almost) of continued success with many many species. How odd is that? I know I am not all that quick, so someone has to explain that to me.

The point of the ranting is, as far as I can tell, everything they do is social, and man do I mean everything. Cheers

so do you believe that monitors should be kept in pairs and/or groups and that it's impossible to be successful with a static or lone animal?

if not, how do you keep that static or lone animal happy and fulfill it's social behavior?

For Susan, I guess I need to break out some social pics, are you interested?

Frank- I always like to see pictures!

Susan as far as cage size goes the more monitors you have together the bigger the cage needs to be. If your like most and keep them inside it would be very difficult to have a cage big enough for a pair. Most Lizards are kept in cages much to small.....TC

In this case hierarchy is descriptive of a type of socialization in my opinion. This is where things get cloudy when talking about conscious social behavior . The hierarchy is established thru basic dominance , the lizards compete with each other the ones with best physical advantages win out. The dragons aren't directly trying to teach each other anything or are making a kill with the intent of feeding or interacting with other dragons their also not working together to accomplish a common goal. Their looking out for themselves . If they had it their way they would be dinning alone. That's the basics of the situation. Stemming from this feeding frenzy get together other important aspects of dragon interaction have developed. That's where it gets cloudy when describing the behaviors as social . How much is free will how much is is genetic preprogramming , conditioned response or conscious decision. The term social can be pretty vague at times.

Ernie Eison
westwoodreptiles.co

THE INDEPENDENT (Dublin, Ireland) 13 June 08 Playing with fire: Lone dragon meets three Swedish blondes (Kevin Myers)
The recent rescue of a lost diving party in Indonesian waters is not merely a perfect little film script in itself, but it also reminds us of the greatest animal discovery of the 20th century, that of the Komodo dragon.
As you probably know, the party of five went scuba diving off the Indonesian island of Flores. They included three good-looking blonde women and a former Royal Marine commando. They were under water for about an hour, and when they surfaced found themselves in a rip current that was too strong for them to escape.
Now, what on earth -- or rather in the ocean -- they were doing swimming in such a location without a powered boat on the surface is one of the mysteries of this story. After all, Flores is where the Indian and the Pacific oceans meet: and the two seas are not shaking hands there for the first time, exchanging polite small talk and wondering how to move to meet the next guest.
They've been meeting there for thousands of years, generating currents which could suck Kansas out to Midway: any experienced diver should have known that to have taken a pair of flippers into such waters was like arming oneself with toothpaste against sharks.
Anyway, after their dive, the five surfaced and tried to swim to the nearest island, which, in the current, turned out to be rather like trying to swim to the moon.
They bade the island farewell as it careened by, and not being complete nitwits (only partially so), they tied their dive vests together so they wouldn't become separated. They were then carried for 10 hours in the surging current, with waves (or so we are told) crashing over them: not merely that -- we are also told that they were in shark-infested waters.
Ah yes: shark-infested waters. Why is it that waters are never cod-infested or trout-infested? Why are our fields never infested with cows? Why are our skies never infested with clouds? Yes, timber can be infested with woodworm, but only when we can see the holes everywhere. Why is it that, in the way we tell a story, sharks can only infest a sea, rather than occasionally inhabit or visit or be present in it? For the word infested does not merely suggest enmity, it also implies multiplicity: a hostile host.
As it happens, our gallant party did not actually see a single shark during their 10 hours in these "shark-infested waters", never mind get an attempted pedicure from one. Finally, they saw an island they reckoned that, with their combined efforts, they could reach: and so they struggled ashore on to the beautiful silver sands of the isle of Rinca.
And it was here that the Komodo dragon made its appearance. I say "its", because a close analysis of the stories on the internet suggests that that just one Komodo approached them. The blonde Swede -- and thank God for blonde Swedes in any story, say I -- Helena Nevalainen reported: "It was big. It tried to go at my feet."
Listen, if I had been marooned on a remote island for years and years, like the lizard, and a beautiful blonde Swede emerged from the surf like Ursula Andress in 'Dr No', the very least I'd do would be try to lick her toes. But alas, Swedish girls aren't what they were in my day: this modern Swede threw her lead-weighted diving belt at the reptile, which then contented itself by licking on that. I know the feeling. We've all done it.
The poor beast, apparently broken-hearted, then sloped off: which did not prevent journalists from saying that the castaways "fought off Komodo dragons" for two successive nights.
The lizards are about 10 feet long. They weigh 400 pounds, and can bite a kitchen stove in half with their jaws. So how, pray, did the three blondes "fight off" the attacks of these ravening 'Monsters from the Dark Lagoon'? By stamping on their paws with their Manolo stilettos? By blinding them with reflections from their Chanel sunglasses? By walloping them with their thongs?
Meanwhile, somewhere on the Isle of Rinca, a broken-hearted Komodo dragon is pining for his lost Swede. For Komodos have feelings too, you know, despite their wretched lives. The only way adolescent Komodos can avoid being eaten by their uncles and aunts is by rolling in their own excrement (or someone else's: take your pick) and hiding among prey entrails (which adult Komodo are too picky to eat).
In other words, rather like Liverpool, no wonder teenage Komodo grow up troubled. Moreover, Komodo mouths are infested with 50 kinds of lethal bacteria, and one blast of their breath alone can give a monocast engine-block dysentery, gingivitis and herpes. All in all, not ideal for snogging.
Thus the Komodo fits neatly into the slot in human mythology left vacant by the non-existent dragon: yet the creature was only discovered by western man in 1910.
Which gives Hollywood just 18 months to celebrate the centenary with an epic film about the Rinca encounter, with Paris Hilton, Victoria Beckham and Lindsay Lohan playing the blondes, and Donald Trump playing the Komodo -- but, of course, with a quiff.
Playing with fire: Lone dragon meets three Swedish blondes