I have to agree with Neal, You, someone whos really nice, but really new, is telling someone whos been at this a very long time with a highly successful record with one of the most difficult species, hes wrong.
No offense John, but Pilbaras are not known as a difficult species, their just expensive and boring(personal opinion). They work together very well. So it must be what your doing?
Heres the point, you take your results, no matter how limited or how extensive, as the "TRUTH" and others results, again no matter how limited or extensive, as wrong, when it differs from yours. Sir, your experiences are yours. If someone elses is different then yours, is does not make them wrong. If they are not having your problems(are more successful), then that means, your not doing something. Again, this is something I fail to understand, your new, your having normal beginers problems, you know, messing up eggs, losing females to reproductive problems, having group behavior problems. All normal newbie problems. So why do you think you know more then those that are successful??????? and experienced. Sir, you have to answer that.
Of course is easy to keep any monitor by itself, You do not have to understand anything but what temps and humidity and feed it. Once you allow groups, the pressure is on the keeper to have to understand group dynamics. And there are group dynamics. And to MAINTAIN, those dynamics. Which is ever changing.
For instance, a working group is like my group of caudolenis(large group) or my groups of gouldi complex monitors or my gilleni, or large group of topenders. They live and prosper in groups, they reproduce well, without interfering with eachothers nests or eggs. And in fact up, to helping eachother nest. And yes, i have pics. They continue to grow even after heavy multiclutching and still get along. They are not failing.
You sir, you have to understand, a cage is not natural. Also, keepers are not all the same. If a successful group is the goal, then the keeper has to understand what allows that.
The question is, do you allow that. If you fail, then no you don't. If your monitors succeed, then maybe you do. If you allow that on a repeated regular basis, then you most likely do understand what it takes. If you allow that year in and year out, with many species, then not only do you understand that, but are also willing to work your bum off.
How well you do as a keeper is gauged on how well the group works together. Its not a yes or no situation.
When raised together from very young, there is about an 80% success rate in forming groups. When putting together groups of adults unknown to eachother, there is about a 10% success rate. Of course, the area in the middle results with percentages in the middle.
Where you seem to be so misguided is, you must think monitors are windup dolls/toys, without a mind of their own. You think, they are suppose to do what you tell them. If they don't, its the monitors fault. As in, if the group has rough spots, then they are not social. That sir is very naive.
All social groups are constantly expelling members and attracting others. This is normal, there is no social group that HAS TO MAINTAIN the same members, not with any animal or human.
That you expect yours to be the exception, and that you expect to succeed, RIGHT OFF THE BAT, is very interesting to me.
That you will suggest to someone what he will experience, when he has been doing this for many many many years longer then you and has shown very good success, is telling of you.
John, the truth is, it takes experience, knowledge, work, patience, and conviction to allow monitors to work in groups. From the results of many, its not for the beginer. It takes a learning curve. It also appears that some think they are above that learning curve.
If you paid attention to what I have said, I recomend a pair for newbie breeders, not groups. As pairs require a far lower working knowledge of monitor behavior. The more in a group, the more you the keeper have to understand.
ALso if you paid attention, you will remember that I have said, all groups will eventually dwindle down to a pair, then a single individual. This occurs with all social/communal type animals. All groups age and result in a single solitary individual. Then it dies, its only a matter of time. But what happens during that time is key.
The point is, if supported, 90% or more of their recruitment is done while young. And in groups.
The ABOVE is a report on my results, NOT MY THEORIES, but again from actual results from several thousand actual successful reproductive events, from single females, up to large groups. As Neal said, its a report of RESULTS. Now what you think will happen because of your failures.
Something to think about John, its very easy to fail, it occurs with all newbies in any area. Its harder to succeed in any area particularly with complicated subjects like behavior that have many right and many wrong answers, its takes and should take, a learning process.
The punchline is, why do you listen to those that have a history of failure and compare that to those with a history of success. Again, its easy to fail. It does not take education or application to fail. It does take understanding and application to succeed. It takes nothing to fail. failing is easy.
So you must understand, I fail to understand, why folks get and pass on husbandry tips, and they have a history of failure. Husbandry tips should be passed on from successful results, not failure. Sir, they simply failed. That is not information to pass on. And don't make it a behavioral problem with monitors. Some fail, some succeed, to succeed means its possible. To succeed results in better/benefitual results over not succeeding. Its that simple. To say "they" are not social in nature is merely an easy out. Its basically holding both hands over your bum. The reason is, some are very successful with groups. You do understand, it only takes one exception to BREAK a rule, particularly a manmade rule, based from failure.
Let me see, a single monitor is easy to keep, but, it does not breed well, it does little to zero behavior, they are not all that entertaining(they do nothing)to watch, So I ask, whats the point.
When I have successful pairs to groups, I have tons of eggs, tons of behavior, tons of entertainment, and I am CONSTANTLY LEARNING(educational), its also scary as I have the chance to fail. As in, its a constant living changing entity. No offense to you, but I love the challange of success and failure. Failing is not a challange to my manhood. Failing causes me to learn, not blame others or the monitor. So, you think you already know more then Neal???? I challange that. Cheers
