Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So, just a random thought, but if TPWD and legislators are concerned about the unfettered removal of our natural resources from the environment, such as snakes, then why don't they go after the biggest terminator of snakes and other wildlife? In a word, drivers.

Have you ever been on a trip and saw more DORs than live animals by the time you returned home? To answer that question, for my own part, that's usually the rule rather than the exception.

How many of you have seen automobiles purposefully swerve to take out a crossing snake or even a turtle? And how many times have you seen it occur? I know I have several times. Some people think that nailing turtles and watching them fly and spin in the air in their rearview is actually funny. I can't tell you how many people have told me, when the topic of snakes comes up, that they purposefully try to hit as many snakes as they can while driving.

How is this even legal? Or is it?

Shouldn't there also be a "Don't Mess with Texas Wildlife" sign dotting all of the major highways throughout the state?

Wouldn't something like this at least discourage much of the devastation that happens to wildlife?

Though some wild animals may jump out in front of you as you drive, most wildlife I see is slowly crossing, easily-spotted from hundreds of feet away.

I don't think there is any excuse for most people who run over wildlife. I mean, how can you miss a big atrox or a pink coachwhip (and yet, I've probably seen more dead 5 foot pink coachwhips than I have live ones)? Even small snakes are easy to see in time to avoid them.

I can't imagine us ever saying, "Well, your honor, that person was just crossing the road, taking his time, and I didn't want to slow down. If he wanted to live, why didn't he move a little faster?" Well, maybe I did see that on Judge Judy, one time, now that I think of it. If it's called manslaughter, shouldn't there be a faunal counterpart of that term that is also punishable by law?

Oh, and if there ever is a "Don't Mess with Texas Wildlife" roadsign, there needs to be an image of a snake on it somewhere. I think a lot of average citizens somehow believe that a snake doesn't count as Texas "wildlife".

I know that I need to send a letter like this to TPWD and/or legislators, but thought I'd open some dialogue here.

Dusty Rhoads

Excellent point, Dusty. This is a cause tailor-made for HCU. It's high time snakes and other reptiles were given the same consideration as other wildlife on texas roadways....
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

>>How many of you have seen automobiles purposefully swerve to take out a crossing snake or even a turtle? And how many times have you seen it occur?

Personally, just once that I remember. I had stopped for a slider in the middle of the road (on the stripes of a 2-lane highway), had my door open and was getting out of the car, when someone going the opposite direction went out of their way to run it over within 10 feet of me.

Shouldn't there also be a "Don't Mess with Texas Wildlife" sign dotting all of the major highways throughout the state?

This is the best idea I've heard in a while!

I just bought your book this weeknd (from Roy in Sanderson)--WOW.
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Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

>>I just bought your book this weekend (from Roy in Sanderson)--WOW.

Thanks, Chris! That's cool -- I had no idea Roy was even selling it.

Mmmmm...can't wait to get back down there in good ol' West Texas. Hopefully, Russ Gurley and I will be headed down sometime in August.

DR
Suboc.com

My thoughts:

The HB was a load of crap probably not having a lot to do with preservation of reptiles (I'm stating the obvious).

Unfortunately, it has been my experience that reptile lovers are a definite minority. I have talked with people about snake preservation until I am blue in the face and still get the "I don't care, if I see a snake I'm killing it..."

Finally, running over sliders, cooters and gopher tortoises in FL seems to be a state pastime on the interstates and highways. I have witnessed on no fewer than 6 occasions, an individual purposely swerve to hit a turtle/tortoise. I see DOR turtles/tortoises almost every day on my way to work (60 miles each way). Not to be a pessimist, but it seems that society as a whole is becoming more cruel and desensitized. Every once in a while someone surprises me, unfortunately not often enough.

Bill
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WJS Herps
Brooksville, Fl
Bill & Jennifer Smoot

That for every intentional act of herpecide by automobile there are 1000 unintentional acts of the same.

The real fix here is not easy nor cheap, but road ways need to be designed to keep wildlife off the pavement in the first place. Corridors which allow passing underneath roadways coupled with curbs or retaining walls would help a great deal for Reptiles but probably not so much for mammals, and would be expensive.

Still this would seem to be mandatory (to me at least) in cases where habitat and species are sensitive.
If we could find a cost effective and aesthetic way to stop so many animals from being slaughtered on the roads and right of ways we might be up for a serious stewardship award.

The Game Wardens know we move a lot of stuff off the road. As far as I know they don't have a problem with it.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

>>The real fix here is not easy nor cheap, but road ways need to be designed to keep wildlife off the pavement in the first place. Corridors which allow passing underneath roadways coupled with curbs or retaining walls would help a great deal for Reptiles but probably not so much for mammals, and would be expensive.

There's a tortoise fence here in southern Utah to keep Gopherus agassizii off the roads. Seems to be working really well. We'll have to look into how that got approved for funding and brought about, etc. I know they're a protected species and vulnerable, but it seems common sense that something proactive should be done to protect our nation's species before they become threatened with extinction. (Captain Obvious strikes again! )

>>If we could find a cost effective and aesthetic way to stop so many animals from being slaughtered on the roads and right of ways we might be up for a serious stewardship award.

No doubt! We'll have to put our heads together on something like this. At first, we'll probably have to start small and save snakes under the pretense of trying to save something a little more cute-and-cuddly, like box turtles or something, on a small stretch of road where many are often seen DOR. (Gosh that sounds hypocritical, but I'm just so partial to snakes -- then again, snakes definitely could never have too many people on their side.) Once others see we've done something positive, proved ourselves, and have won a small victory somewhere, we can tackle some of the bigger stuff we want to do.

This project sounds right up my alley, however daunting it may seem.

DR
Suboc.com

Dusty I would be interested in hearing about this fence, all the dirt! Please keep us posted on what you find.
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Todd Hughes

This exact issue was brought up on multiple occasions back in 2006 with the meetings that were held in Texas between the Wildlife Diversity group @ TPWD and herpers, dealers, hobbyists and the like. The common consensus from the Dept was that it is too hard and too large of an issue to work with DOT on promotion of anti-reptile slaughter on the roadways. We were encouraged to report intentional swervings to hit or kill animals even herps to the local gamewarden or the 1800 poaching #. Intentional killing by motor vehicle can be punishable by citation. That information was good to know, I have seen 6 or so that were purposely killed before I knew I could turn them in with thier make, model, and license.

Unfortunately witnessed 2 subocs get hit last weekend, both were in the lanes and neither car swerved to hit them. So much for the "Sanctuary".

Hope this info helps.

Dusty, it is by far the norm down in south Texas to go on an outing and see more dor's than live. I find many locales by spotting the dor's. I have observed what you have as well, many times. On highways such as US77 it is a genocide. The big trucks don't move for squat, they flatten it. I have seen very large gators cut in half by a semi. When people move to the right to let others pass on single lane highways, even the "smart" snakes lose. The turtle barriers (fencing) that I have read about sounds like a good idea, (funneling them towards a culvert or bridge) but is probably cost prohibitive. I think this could work to some extent, allowing for herps to cross under a road, but also funneling them into a predatory zone for humans and animals alike. I don't know what the answers are for this predicament, but I would like to see something done. The last box turtle I saw was a dor and was killed on the right of the stripe. As long as the habitat keeps fragmenting, dor's are going to be the norm for road cruising. Sad but true.
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Todd Hughes

I would like to find the state that implemented the turtle fencing and find out how that is going. They got it done in a smaller state in a sensitive area, maybe the species was threatened?
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Todd Hughes

Below is a link to a news story about what the State of Arizona is doing in that regard.
Wildlife Corridors

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Gerald Keown
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
www.southwesternherp.com