Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This season we bred a Central Brazilian male to a Coral Sunglow to produce 50% DH Brazilian Sunglows. I photographed them last night and thought I would show some of my favorite boas from this litter! Let me know what you think of them!

Im going to head to the gym after this now that I know Ronne is working out again! LOL

Have a great day!
John

SALMONBOA.COM

Not to start anything but I am just curious. When I first began collecting Red-Tails about 23-24 years ago I was in contact with many of the more serious collectors at the time.....and anytime anyone would mention crossing a BCI into a BCC you would just about get your head chewed off at the very least......and this went on for MANY MANY YEARS.......even Jeff at one time gave me an earfull about 10 years ago in regard to this too....

Basically everyones opinion was to keep everything pure.

Now-a-days everything is being crossed into everything and I understand that this is one way to make new morphs, but what happened to the "Old School" methodology? Pretty soon we wont be sure what kind of boas we have anymore.............

Unfortunately without this type of crossing certain morphs would not exist........i.e. Roswell.....which is an amazing snake in its own, but again its a hybrid of the different subspecies ( Suri X Col )

Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject

The snakes are nicely colored by the way........should make for bright albinos.

Jared Horenstein
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~ ASK ME ABOUT MY BALLS ~

Jared,

Your point is well taken and we too feel strongly about the purity of certain localities or bloodlines. Actually, that male is 5 years old and we raised him solely with the intent of finding a female that is a true Central Brazilian boa. There are so few in the country that we finally realized that it could be many years before we find the right female. It was me that said to Rich "what a shame it would be if that incredible male never reproduced his own kind so lets pick out a very special morph for him to breed in case we never find the right Central Brazilian girl."

So I guess my point is that our passion is making new and exciting boas, whether from pure x pure, morph x morph, or pure x morph. As you mentioned, the Roswell is a perfect example of what can happen. I can only dream that this fella has something special hiding inside that will pop out when we produce Brazilian Sunglows!

Thanks for your post Jared!

Great day!
John

I think you answered yourself when you used the term "oldschool".

..
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~ ASK ME ABOUT MY BALLS ~

Hi Jared,
I personally think we would have seen a pure Bcc or Bci Roswell (was it not originally called candy cane when we first saw something that resembled this morph years ago?) eventually without the need for creating intergrades between two subspecies. The only reason we saw it so soon is because someone wanted to create an albino with a brighter tail. Eventually two of the original line (Bcc or Bci) would have been bred back to each other and a striped boa produced.

I have my days when I don't mind crossing the two subspecies, and I have my days when I am against it. What I do believe, is that people that create these should microchip their snakes and keep records of the crosses, along with picture backups. That way, there are backups to ensure people know exactly what they have.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology
3309 Gardner Hall
Raleigh, NC 27695-7613

hybrids would be a great idea.
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0.1 CB fiancee' Kelly (Pythona)
1.1 Albino Burms
0.0.1 Razorback Musk Turtle (Lil Cheney)
1.0 Irian Jaya Bluetongue Skink
0.1 Eastern Bluetongue Skink
1.0 Black Throated Monitor
0.1 Savanna Monitor
ball python colony
0.1 Niger Uromastyx
0.1 Emperor scorpion
0.0.1 Emperor scorpion
0.1 GRAVID Deathstalker (most toxic scorpion in the world!)
0.0.1 Fantasy frog
Ever growing Boa colony
1.0 Blood Python
2.2 Leopard Geckos
2.5 Sugar Gliders
2.1 dumb-estic cats (Nugget,Pedro & Dixie Bubbles)
1.1 American Pit Bull Terriers (Joker & SEGA) Punish the Deed not the Breed
0.1 Jack russell/chihuahua cross (Harley)

Well my snakes serve a second purpose...they keep my family out of my house

Hi Jared and everyone,
I feel strongly about not crossing the sub species but I understand why people would want to do it. I can only hope that no matter the reason we (herpers) do not misrepresent any animals for the sake of a sale, unfortunately the dollar brings out the worst in people. I agree with Warren on a microchip or picture system that way only the honest would participate and the consumer will know who to buy from. As far as it being called "old school" that is just a label used to allow others to justify doing something different, and I can say that has promoted the hobby tremendously. So I don't agree with just putting snakes together because it would be a shame for them not pass on their gene's, I defend the right to do it.
Joel Thomas

Because back in the day it was for the Love/Respect of the animals.Todays it for the love of money!!
NEW ? EXCITING ? quite sad actually

>>Not to start anything but I am just curious. When I first began collecting Red-Tails about 23-24 years ago I was in contact with many of the more serious collectors at the time.....and anytime anyone would mention crossing a BCI into a BCC you would just about get your head chewed off at the very least......and this went on for MANY MANY YEARS.......even Jeff at one time gave me an earfull about 10 years ago in regard to this too....
>>
>>Basically everyones opinion was to keep everything pure.
>>
>>
>>Now-a-days everything is being crossed into everything and I understand that this is one way to make new morphs, but what happened to the "Old School" methodology? Pretty soon we wont be sure what kind of boas we have anymore.............
>>
>>Unfortunately without this type of crossing certain morphs would not exist........i.e. Roswell.....which is an amazing snake in its own, but again its a hybrid of the different subspecies ( Suri X Col )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject
>>
>>
>>
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>>The snakes are nicely colored by the way........should make for bright albinos.
>>
>>
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>>Jared Horenstein
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>>~ ASK ME ABOUT MY BALLS ~

I think that is a bit of an over generalization. Sure I am disappointed and shake my head when I run into people who are obviously only into reptiles for the money. But the only real way to tell that is by individually talking to them.

I have only interacted with a small to moderate number of people in the industry so my experiences are not necesarily representative industry wide. That being said most of the time that I get into a conversation with someone who works with hybrids the motivation is to create a better looking animal. I have rarely met someone that came across as making/keeping hybrids for the cash potential.

Personally I am of mixxed opinion on them. Hybrids without full disclosure piss me off. If there is full disclosure then there are only a few that I ever thought were worth my interest but there were some. At the same time I think that pure stock should be encouraged and maintained even to a degree of localities even though in most snake species I think this is overkill.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

I really like the 2nd and 3rd ones down, knock out animals imo. Keep up the great work.
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Randall L Turner Jr.
Boas make the world go round.

what camera and light setup do you use? I recently bought a Rebel XTI and I for the life of me cant take a photo like that. Everyone tells me you have a great camera yet I havent the foggiest idea of what I really can do with it. I guess I need a photography course or something like that. Thanks. Mike Panichi
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honesty is my only policy

Hey Mike we use the Fuji Finepix s9100. This is our second one because we love this camera. Its not the best one out there, but fits every purpose we have for a digital camera. Thanks much and let me know if you need anything else.

Thank you,
John

You know it John!

I gotta get a shake now! I hate those raw eggs!
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Boaphile Home
All Original/Boaphile Plastics
The Boa Network

Cause them pythons don't fit into your collection...

Jared
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~ ASK ME ABOUT MY BALLS ~

Those are sweet! Hybridization is a part of the boa mutation world and thats fine in my opinion only because there is a big stable market place for locality specific stuff. I also dont think that the already established locality bloodlines are compromised by integrating their genetics into mutation combos, as John said, there was no female available for this male and a potential pure breeding was not even possible. I try and stay out of this kind of stuff because i understand both sides but the side i fall on is the one that gets slammed. Isn't the boa world right where it should be though? We have it all!

The second one is my fave. Can I have? Please? :-D

I agree, Geckomill. I think the new morphs are cool and it is what keeps this hobby alive and thriving. As long as the pure locality bloodlines don't get compromised, I don't see a problem with it. I salute those who keep the pure bloodlines going though, because, without them, the number of pure animals may decline and eventually vanish from the herp-keeping community. But as long as there are those who take pride in purity, then a couple crossbreedings won't hurt the larger community of purebreds. Just my opinion.