Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is anyone still working with these? They seem to never be around anymore. Just wondering if anyone has any cool pics of nice florida pines out there.
Thanks

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Dennis McNamara
Crazy Fools Reptiles
Desnakemon@cox.net

Right now I think the hardest snake to get ( relatively...) is a good looking het for nothing southern pine. I agree with you, very few people are working with them.

BTW, see you at the big show. Are you still next to Howie?

daveb
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in the light, you will find the road...

I'm next to him at the bar mostly, but our tables are right next to each other as well. He said you might want to get in touch with me. Email me whenever you'd like. Can't wait for daytona, Ill have to call howie and find out how many minutes are left. It's like knowing "Rainman".
Have a great one.

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Dennis McNamara
Crazy Fools Reptiles
Desnakemon@cox.net

Tom Stevens does.

I've got a pair from him, and I think my patternless '05 I got from him is gravid, too...

//Todd

Very nice looking animal, thanks.
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Dennis McNamara
Crazy Fools Reptiles
Desnakemon@cox.net

Tom Stevens have some southerns as well as Jim from home grown herps. i also have a pair patternless that just laid 7 eggs this year.

Here are some from the St,Cloud area, the black coloration on heads and dorsum fade the further south you go... I have lots of pics from different locaities. JB

more?...

n/p

n/p

That's got to be one of the silliest pictures I've ever seen, it still has me laughing. I tried to be sensible and figure out how you'd gotten them like that but just end up giggling.
I am definitely loving to see all the pics, those are great looking snakes!

Andy

" the black coloration on heads and dorsum fade the further south you go... I have lots of pics from different locaities.JB"

From what I have seen and heard from others this is not necessarily so. Although it is true that many of the panhandle pines are very dark there are notable exceptions. Same goes for those in the southern part of the state. These snakes are not always light in color and many have strong patterns and infusions of black.

This conversation has come up before and from what I can gather from some of my Floridian friends that have seen many examples from all around the state, the lighter colored specimens tend to originate from coastal area's while those from inland regions tend to be more dark.

Great looking snakes by the way!

Phil

I can't say that the people you talk to are wrong and I have seen the recent pic of the dor found in okechobee co. but I have been researching photos from the ross allen archives and other published photos of florida pines and am convinced that some may have released one or some in from the north to the south only because I have seen so many myself, and I'll admit that I could be wrong but the eyemask has compleatly vanished from all color variants or localities except the okechobee variant?, also ever notice the eastern indigo has less black on the first third as well, the further south you go. JB

np

Not quite sure what you mean by the indigo observation..
Where is this one from?

How about this one?

and while we're at it ...for fun...
any guesses as to locality of this guy?

:Mark

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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

black is replaced by red the farther south they go, no?...their all black in orlando " Vader Phase" and from what I have read their purple or grey in the north... I'd guess the white chined one in your post is a Tampa or duette area maybe lithia? am i right mark?

Citrus county on the red chinned and Hernando on the white.
Very close to one another...
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

How about the pine Mark? Nice looking snake!

Phil

Haha..actually I am not real fond of his looks...
Anyway he's a cb of mixed locales...North and south FL.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Well there are some damn nice red chinned in Georgia.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I'm interested in hearing more about the Ross Allen archives. One thing that I have heard about him is that he brought in snakes from all over the state.

I think that the random escaped pet/ released specimen theory is highly unlikely. I could accept this if it were represented by one or even a few that fit in with your concept of what they should look like based upon your north to south description. I have seen many photo's representing many individual specimens that contradict this though. Something else to consider is that the photo's that I have viewed are from friends that I consider reliable sources and were not taken in downtown Orlando. These photo's were taken in remote area's where finding a released pine snake is unlikely.

These several folks that I have talked with this about all agree that the lighter colored mugitus generally are found near the coast whether this be north or south. Of course this is a generalization and like anything I'm sure there are exceptions.

Do you have any locality info on the pines you posted photo's of? This makes for an interesting discussion and I would like to hear more about what you have seen over the years.

Phil

Well Ross Allen claimed he had seen hundreds, all of the discriptions that I have read never mention the eye mask or dotting or speckels on the head, his common discription was "pale/grey or buff head" and I have personaly seen ten over the last twenty years, have also seen lots of photos from different individuals and my guesses on locality are usally accurate, Mark can tell you I'm no amature in the feild. Ocala pines are very distinctive(orange posterior, black flecked anteriors),so are duval co. pines (very maroon or brick red and no black or very little), most I have seen were from dade city and all were very similier as well(silverish colored). also Tom I have been told by oldtimers of groups of pines that were found in panhandle where thay are more common and then released south in the state to control rodents in citrus groves, this could explain interior fla. pinesnakes look like the northern fla. pines, most groves are in the spine of the state. Search this "Indexed Bibliography of the Herptofauana of Florida" check out citations 57.-154.from R. Allen, I'm not trying to change your minds but I have been throughly convinced that true southern florida pinesnakes have no, not even remnants of the eye mask, but I have concidered the theroy about the coastal pines being cleaner and I could still be wrong...of all the pines that I have seen, all come from only four or five different countys. as for my pics posted, the pines on the tennis net are from wild adults found in orange co. and the big one in the hole and on the fence was found in sarasota co. Damn midnight! so whata ya say Tom, do I have a point? JB

:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Nice shot Mark! Got to get into the field when you're able!
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Todd Hughes