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This is 1 of 5 snakes that hatched from a gravid, wild-caught female. The mother unfortunately died shortly after laying the clutch and all the siblings were males.

Wow - hang on to them!
You probably already know this, but if you can, try to get ahold of locality females for the boys to try and prove out whether it is a simple inheritable trait.

You don't have to use locality females to do it, but it is always nice to have locality versions of a morph in the trade.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

Yes, I am working on getting some local females to see if this is inheritable.

I am just getting back into breeding after being out of the scene for 7yrs or so and this guy's mom is the one that pushed me back into it.

The mother dropped 7 eggs and 5 of them hatched out. Two of them had almost identical patterns - this one and another one I gave to one of my buddies...his ended up dying. Of the 5 that hatched, I still have 2; the one weird patterned one and his male sibling below. He has very vivid coloring.

Wow!,.......that certainly IS a very uniquely patterned corn!

As FunkyRes mentioned, I would DEFINITELY try to prove that to be an inheritable recessive trait, by breeding it to a locality female, then "back-breed" the siblings to each other, and also a female sibling back to that "Twin-Spotted" male.

In all honesty,....THAT would be one of the most sought after patterns in cornsnakes to ever hit the hobby!....no kidding!

There are some European Ratsnakes that have that type of pattern, but that is UNHEARD of in anything North American.

Good luck with proving the trait in that "Bad Boy" in the future!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Well depending on how close to that pattern it needs to be to count as a match I can think of one North American ratsnake that is very similar. Specifically Trans Pecos Rat Snakes(Suboc's). There are specimens where the center of the "H" pattern is so thin that it is almost non-existent. I suspect that there are abberant specimens of TPRS's in which the center is completely gone leaving the double spot pattern appearance. Also very similar is that the blotches making up the sides of the "H" in the dorsal pattern are normally blushed with a white or very light color in the middle of each blotch.

Where did you find the snake? I assume corns don't extend as far as Texas/New Mexico/Mexico where TPRS are native so I'm pretty sure a natural hybrid is not possible/likely. Where did you collect the mom from? Was she as colorfull as the offspring pictured above? Even without the pattern that is pretty wild color for a wild caught corn.

Very interesting to say the least.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

I live in FL.

This was a wild caught that was already gravid.

I had nothing to do with the breeding.

Most of the corns I see from Florida are miami phase or somewhat similar. Is it common to run into corns with high red and orange colors, even if not as bright as yours, in the wild there?

Just to clarify I was not accusing your specimens offspring of being hybrids but simply noting the similarity in parts of pattern to another species I keep.

Good luck in the coming years with the project.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

Sean,

To answer you first question - yes!

I've caught a range of corn's over the years in west central FL. They do vary in color but the Miami phase is found much further south from where I live.

While I've never caught any as brilliant as the Okeetee's I've seen, me and my snake buddies have caught some gorgeous corns!

No problem on the hybrid thing...I'm just not real keen on the hybrid scene and I'm really hoping this is just a new breedable pattern.

Thanks for the interest and the luck..this will take some years to sort out.

As I mentioned before, that "twin-spotted" pattern is absolutely crazy!,....the other thing is,.....that body shape is ALL cornsnake, all the way down to the slim delicate neck, to the head shape itself. The next thing is, there isn't anything else in florida it could have hybridized with that even looks close to that bizarre combination, especially any oviparous(egg-laying)snakes.

Therefore, I'm sure it's a corn, and a very freakishly unique one at that.

Another cool thing that's in your favor is the fact that the original female laid the eggs in your possession, so the hatchlings don't look weird like they do because the eggs were attacked by fungus, or way too high of temps(I assume),..correct?

This is another reason I think the crazy pattern will very likely be inherited in a future breeding.......all good things going in your favor!..

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Hello Doug,

To the best of my knowledge more than one of corn morphs on the market have originated from wild caught snakes in FL; anerythrism and the lavender strain to name just two.

I incubated these eggs just as I have with all the other clutches I've ever hatched so I don't think the variation is due to that.

Unfortunately, I just found out yesterday that the twin to the snake with the weird pattern is deceased (there were two that hatched out with almost identical patterns). I traded one to a good friend and fellow snake breeder, but it didn't make it.

Here is another shot from the top that better shows the divided saddles/blotches.

Very cool!,.....another thing is,...from what I could make out in the other pics, I don't see any dark(melanin) anywhere on the snake(s) either, except for maybe the eyes,...am I correct? if so, I'd also venture to guess it's also hypomelanistic,.....but as to what type of hypomelanism it is wouldn't be known until it was bred to other "known" types later on as well.

This is great stuff!

take care!, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

big red garter snake!! I'd love to see an amel version of that.

never seen a corn snake with that pattern...makes me wonder if its not some sort of hybrid.... be nice to get more pictures, close ups especially.
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PHLdyPayne

It does look like a Garter! lol! Is that even possible? Was the mom small to be having babies? . At first glance I just thought it was some kind of weird yellow rat or black rat hybrid with the stripe around the neck area. That's definately cool! I'd love to know if it was a natural hybrid!
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No, we're never gonna quit,Ain't nothin' wrong with it,Just actin' like we're animals - Nickelback, Animals

While it may be a hybrid, I think corns have probably been hybridized with almost every rat snake we know of.

What does the mother and the syblings look like?
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I decided my old sig was too big.

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>>What does the mother and the syblings look like?
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it was from a gravid wild caught!!!!!!!!!!!1
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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which is why I didn't ask to see the father.

by siblings I meant siblings of the one shown.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

Yes,...I'd like to see those myself!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I'm not big into hybrids...just hoping it's a new pattern!

Can't help you with the hybrid thing...the mother was gravid and wild caught

What other pictures would you like to see..maybe I can oblige

Can't help you with the hybrid thing...the mother was gravid and wild caught

What other pictures would you like to see..maybe I can oblige

This is a picture of the sibling

I think I posted this below too
(This is my first time responding to messages sorry)

I'm betting the belly has very little pattern (if any). Take a pic of the belly for us. It is almost certainly heritable. Keep hunting where you found it and keep that location to yourself. lol.

Congrats !!!!!!!!
South Mountain Reptiles

Here's a shot of his belly

Well, the parent(s) of this snake could be escapees that were carrying one of the hobby-popular mutations like one of the motley complex, but this doesn't explain the twin markings. The belly is classic motley. Hence, no matter what the origins, it appears that you have a recessive mutation there. That's very exciting. Now, is it allelic to motley? If this is a male, you should breed it to a motley and to whatever else you want to add this pattern mutation to (presuming it's a mutation and not a freak of nature). If it's a female, your first pairing should be with a motley (with color would be best). If the progeny of the motley pairing are motley, you'll know it's a form of motley. I recommend one of the albino motlies, so you can prove/disprove the existance of at least the most popular color mutation. If no motlies appear in the F1s, you could have a new mutation, but you can only make that determination by pairing some of the progeny together or one of them back to this adult. Of course, if you see babies like this one in the F1s of breeding it to non motlies, the indication is that you're dealing with polygenic traits or a non recessive mutation. If nothing happens from any of this line breeding, your snake is simply a beautiful corn with anomalous markings that are not heritable. My vote is that it's recessive and probably a variation of motley we've never seen before. Sounds like a win/win situation to me.

Congratulations again and best wishes in your breeding trials.

Don
South Mountain Reptiles

Hey, glad to see you on here. Yes I had one of the other siblings and it kicked. I couldn't get it to eat for a long time. I think when it finally decided to eat, that's when things got bad. Murphy really hates me.
Steve R.

I had the same thing happen to two babies last year - they were obtained as known non feeders. One finally ate once and died, one finally ate twice and died.

I think that sometimes when a neonate goes such a long time without eating, the act of digestion is enough to do it in.

I would be very interested in hearing the experiences of people who have raised hundreds with respect to that.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

Dropkick?

Hey Adam & Steve R.

For those of you curious about this snake ,I too had the twin to that snake.I sent Adam pics of him,Maybe he can post them. He did not make it threw the stress of the move from Fl. to Mid Tenn. where i live now. He was though a great eater already eating weaned rats. It was a real shame to see him go. Steve and I both knew these were SPECIAL animals. Thank GOD Adam still has this snake, He could go down in the snake history books as the guy who brought this radical pattern to the cornsnake trade.

Party on Adam GOOD LUCK!

PS. Try to post the pics of my late "Stillman Corn"

Joe Rader