Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I see this come up ocassionally, but would like to throw it all out on the table here.

What is your opinion.....Yes or No?

Have you, or someone you know, produced an Albino x Albino clutch??
Was everything okay or were there defects?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tomsey

Which isn't worth much because I don't have a lot of experience with albino x albino. But what Ive seemed to pick up on is that albino x albino works well sometimes, but other times doesn't. I've known people to breed albino x albino SIBLINGS, which doesnt work out too well. And what I mean by not working too well is babies with deformities such as no eyes, 1 eye, kinked tails, ect.

However, what some people are saying you can get away with, is if you were to cross an albino x sunglow. Or some kind of albino with another gene such as albino arabesque, sunglow, albino motley, or some other form of "mutant" gene which may help to strengthen the albino.

My opinion isnt worth much, but its just my theory.....

Albino x Albino is not the real problem!!! The real problem is breeding two animals that are closely related AND have "defective" genes. I believe somewhere early on in the Kahl albino porject an animal that had a one or more "hidden" defective genes was used and that(tose) gene(s) got into the albino pool.

We've all heard the stories about one eyed and no eyed coming from albino x albino litters. Birth defects can and do pop up in any litter. Key thing is not to breed animals that are too inbred together. Now the hard part, what is "too inbred"? Only breeding will tell, if deformities occur, then the two animals are too closely related and should NEVER be bred TOGETHER again, One or the other or both may be fine for some other project.

IMO bottom line, only inbreed when intended and on a limited basis. Otherwise breed as unrelated animals as you can. I would only breed siblings or offspring back to parent for specific results and be prepared for that pairing to possibly fail!!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I had these same questions not too long ago. I bought my first females this year, a sunglow and a DH Sunglow Female. After several forums and speaking to several breeders I've decided that next summer I'm buying the male, either albino or Sunglow to breed to my females. Eye defects and kinked tails can and do result in any litter. Whether it is albino X normal or any combination. Inbreeding (as mentioned earlier) probably plays a bigger role than the albino gene does alone.

>>I had these same questions not too long ago. I bought my first females this year, a sunglow and a DH Sunglow Female.

We had a nice litter with a young albino female x albino arabesque male last year.

Id say yes. We all know the kahl strain is weak, ive seen albino x albino without any problems and albino x het.albino with deformities. So do what you want.
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Richard Ceniceros
Tap or take a nap

Were you being sarcastic or serious?

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

Dave already commented on this but isn't it rather silly to believe that a homozygous gene pair is damaging when it happens to come from homozygous parents but is non-damaging when it comes from heterozygous parents? I mean it's not like the gene is different depending on the het/hom state of the parent.

Furthermore the only reason that outcrossing(hetxhet or hetxhom) is used is so that we can keep the het gene while reducing/eliminating bad genes that are currently in the morphs gene pool. Case in point was the hypo gene in Brazilian Rainbow Boa's. When the gene first occurred the animals with it had regurgitation and other health issues. After the valiant efforts of those first breeders(Mike and others) outcrossing the animals the genes responsible for the health problems are no longer seen in the morph. The hypo gene today is the exact same gene that was there in the first generation but the morph no longer has health issues.

Unless every single carrier of a gene, Kahl albino in this case, shows the deffect then it is not the gene itself that is "weak" but instead it is some other gene in the morphs gene pool causing the problem.

The fact that het x het produced healthier homozygous ofspring shows that it is not the albino gene itself. If the albino gene was weak it would produce negative symptoms in hetxhet albino offspring just as often as it does in hom x hom offspring.

To answer the original question:
I know people who have done albino x albino with each strain and never had a problem with abnormal defects. However these are also breeders that are careful to get unrelated snakes to breed together. As long as you get unrelated stock you should not have problems with albino x albino.

If on the other hand you are breeding siblings together then expect potential problems even with het x het.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

My first Albino breeding was from Albino x Albino, it was moms first litter and she had 29 live and 1 slug. Out of 29 Albinos there was one with 1 eye.
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Marcs Reptiles

IMO sounds like a decent litter, even with the single baby having one eye.

I've seen eye issues (and other genetic defects) raondomly pop in breeding BRB's. In two unrelated litters I've had a single baby with an eye problem. One in 2006, another in 2007. I've come to expect the occasional baby with some sort of genetic defect. Some are healthy enough to survive and go off as a pet only. Others have more serious problems and end up being put down. Sucks but that is poart of breeding. The more you produce, the more likely you will produce a baby with some degree of defect.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats