Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I've been thinking about building a new enclosure for my Mali's, but space is just too limited in the apt. right now. I am looking into possibly buying a house soon, so I figured why not kill time at work designing a nice big enclosure.

Dimensions (inside) will be 6' x 27" x 24"
What does everything think of this design? The top enclosure has a hinged hood (the front 1/3 of the top and the 6" tall front opens for easy access)

The bottom has a 8" flap for access.

As far as heat, I'm not 100% sure how I want to do this. Currently I have a48" enclosure with a hood that holds the standard heat bulbs and a 48" florescent uvb. I could retro-fit this into one of the enclosures or save it and keep my current tank as a spare. My Mali's would be moving into one of the 2 enclosures here, and I would like to get either a pair of Ornates or Saharan for the other. I am thinking about switching over to MBV's with the new enclosures, but any ideas of how to keep electrical cost down would be great.

That is cool, but the problem with most of the custom designs that I see are that you have to go with the florescent UVB, and I am committed to MVBs. Its hard to accomodate a bulb as large as a SB 100 watt MVB in a solid top enclosure. I think its a nice design, though, if you are okay with the florescents.

I can do either, I am kind of leaning towards an mvb, and I could just cut a hole in the top enclosure to mount it, though, not sure about the bottom at that point, unless I make the overall dimension of the bottom 30" instead of 24". That would certainly help.

Ok, so I wasn't paying attention earlier...
The both enclosures are 24" in height the height of the tops
So, the top unit is 30" in height, the lower will be 32" in height.

Plenty of room to accommodate larger domes or MVB's.

Any suggestions on lighting? should I stick with a large UBV florescent over the cage for uvb and light, and maybe use just a MVB over the basking spot and lower wattage bulbs over the rest of the enclosure? I want to keep the overall wattage as low as possible, with the exception of the MVB of course.

You really don't need more UVB than the MVB. You don't want to flood the whole enclosure with UVB. When you get the MVB, you are going to find that they will spend all of their basking time under it. They really do know the difference and act accordingly. If one of my MVBs burn out, the spoiled rotten lizard under it gives me a death stare and retreats into its cave! It is undeniably an act of protest! Their behavior and color doesn't return to normal until I replace the MVB.

I would say that you do need bright, but once you get your temps good, one or a few of those bright energy saver household bulbs will work fine for extra light only. Just don't use a coil UVB! They are dangerous.

Will the low wattage household bulbs give off any heat? I am currently using the zoomed 60w daytime heat bulbs in my enclosure, and I really dont want to be running 3 of those plus a 150watt mvb (times 2 enclosures) all day. If the other bulbs produce enough heat on like 45watts total plus the mvb i would be very happy

I really don't see why you would need any more heat than the 160 MVB. No, the energy savers don't produce very much heat at all, but again, I doubt that you will need any extra heat source. You really only want the basking area to be hot, right?

Well I would like the temp gradient to be correct, I guess I need multiple lights now due to the heat escaping from glass and having the AC running now doesnt help much, it actually dropped my temps by 2 degrees across the tank, which I guess isn't a problem cause the hot end is still 97 cool end is 86 and basking is 124-132 (approx 4" diameter area)

Night temps are consistent, 76-77F. No extra heat sources added. I guess as long as the gradient is good with the single MVB it shouldn't be a problem. Damn I wish I had some money and a house already lol.

LOL! I thought this was a lighting issue! I didn't know that we were trying to solve bigger issues! I wish you had a house, too, if that helps!

You know, I think a fluctuation of a few degrees isn't that big a deal, as long as the basking stays in that range. I think its really about range more than a specific target temp. You might have to try a couple of things after you get your viv built.

Ditto on what Rosebuds said about the MVB bulbs... I switched my Uros last month from glass aquarium tanks with screen tops and regular basking lights (with UV lights inside the tank) to new Animal Plastics enclosures with MegaRay MVB bulgs. Wow!! The difference in coloring is amazing, especially with my male yellow Saharan. They most DEFINITELY know where the good basking is now. My babies are being shy since I moved them to their new AP cage and are going through an adjustment phase, but they sure love the MegaRay bulbs too. Right now I'm using 100 watt SB Megaray with either a bright household coil fluorescent (not UV) or a 60-watt household bulb, depending on our freaky weather here in Washington state. I still have a 40-watt CHE on at night, since I think that summertime is going to completely bypass us here in the Northwest this year

Andi

Hah, yea slight issue of not having a house (or really just needing room). I have 1 spot in my apt. where I can fit this size enclosure, of course that would mean either not having a TV or not having a couch, both of which I am not willing to sacrifice haha. I actually do have space for 1 enclosure in the office/laundry room, but
a) its too humid in there
b) nobody is in there unless they are on the computer or doing laundry so whats the point?

I am doing some searching around as there are lots of foreclosures in the area. I may build the enclosure at my parents anyway being the have the entire basement not being used at the moment hehe. Maybe I can get this built and setup and stained and everything way before moving, so my Uro's can go right into a nice big home when we move

could you offset the enclosure to accomodate the bulb. thats what i was going to do. ........
. light.
....................................... . light
. enclosure 1 . . .
. . . .
. . . .
................................................
.storeage. .
. . enclosure 2 .
. . .
................................................

this is as simple as i can do to show you what i mean
adam jeffery
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

never mind when i posted it the forum edited the design i had posted so it makes no sense now
adam
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" a.k.a. farfrumugen "
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

No, it doesn't come across, but I always LOVE your sig!

yea I looked at that and wasn't sure where you were going with that. heh. I think there should be enough room as it stand to accommodate the bulbs, only question I have is approx. how far should the MVB be above the basking spot? I can always made adjustments to the height of the top's of the enclosures to make additional room.

Anyone have any ideas on how to properly wire in new lightning and not break any fire codes? I would like to keep the enclosure safe for the Uro and myself

I can't tell you anything about wiring codes, but I can tell you that you should keep your uro at least 12 inches away from a 100 watt MVB and 14 inches from a 160.

>>I can't tell you anything about wiring codes, but I can tell you that you should keep your uro at least 12 inches away from a 100 watt MVB and 14 inches from a 160.

This statement of distances is not necessarily correct. Different brands may have different minimum distance requirements (even of the same wattage). Always check and always follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1 Saharan Uros (Joe and Arthur)
3.0 Mali Uros (Spike, Turtle, and Tank)
1.1 Ornate Uros (Scuttlebutt and Shazzbot)
0.1 Collared Lizard (Rorschach)
2.0 Green Anoles (Bowser and Sprocket)
1.1 Chubby Housecats (Roscolux and Jenny)

I will probably be using mega-ray.. every seems to rate them highly. I am just looking for a ballpark number, I should be ok with a total of 30" and 32" to fit just about anything in there.

Now to find a house... hah!

For the Megarays it is definitely 12 for the 100watt and 14 for the 160.

Good. Do the MVB bulbs need any special fixture, or will a regular dome fixture be fine. The fixture I have now holds a 150w basking bulb, was thinking maybe just swap it now for the mvb and sell my spare 48" florescent.

"For the Megarays it is definitely 12 for the 100watt and 14 for the 160"

Actually...the Mega-Ray website does not support this statement.

The website explains that the distance will be somewhat dependent on the animal. The website recommends 10-18" for the 100 and 12-20" for the 160 so it appears that the minimum numbers suggested by the manufacturer are 10" for the 100 and 12” for the 160. With that said, I still highly recommend that a uvb meter be used to verify levels when playing with any minimum recommendation.

Well, based on the height of my current basking spot and the total height of the new enclosure, the face of the mega-ray should be about 17-18". I will probably need the 160w, so I would assume that would be fine, as long as temps are consistent.

Debb, thanks for the suggestion of a uvb meter. $180 is a bit steep, but seeing how everything will be dependent on the house I find, should I find a steal of a deal on a house, I would definitely be taking out additional funds on the loan for finishing school, my reptiles/fish and other necessary things I/the house may need.

>>Actually...the Mega-Ray website does not support this statement.
>>
>>The website explains that the distance will be somewhat dependent on the animal. The website recommends 10-18" for the 100 and 12-20" for the 160 so it appears that the minimum numbers suggested by the manufacturer are 10" for the 100 and 12” for the 160.

They must have contradictory information on the site then. Here (the page for the 160w SB lamp) they say 18" is the minimum distance and 24" is the max.
link

I'm definitely a Mega Ray groupie. I just want to be sure people use them safely since they do actually put out a good amount of UVB.

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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1 Saharan Uros (Joe and Arthur)
3.0 Mali Uros (Spike, Turtle, and Tank)
1.1 Ornate Uros (Scuttlebutt and Shazzbot)
0.1 Collared Lizard (Rorschach)
2.0 Green Anoles (Bowser and Sprocket)
1.1 Chubby Housecats (Roscolux and Jenny)

I talk to Bob Mac via telephone, the creator of the Megaray, on a regular basis. He says 12 and 14, and if he has any specific suggestions about a specific animal that I am concerned about, then he tells me. These are minimum distances. I usually keep my basking sites at least this far away, and then raise it some as necessary to regulate temps according to the type of animal. For the uros, their basking spots are about 12 -15 inches from the bulb. If you have any doubts, call Bob. He is very approachable.

As for a fixture, I use 250 watt rated ceramic based brooder lamps. That is overkill, but I had several burn out before I switched. Again, Bob made this suggestion. The MVBs get hotter than their regular counterparts, so I go over.

Be sure to get a deep enough dome. I use the 8 1/2 inch domes, the extra big ones, that you can get at Lowes or Home depot. MVBs are very large bulbs and if you are setting it on a screen, you need extra room. I try not to, as screen does block a certain amount of UVB, but if you have jumpy lizards that can scale a 21 inch tank side, you kinda have to.

I am familiar with the generic 18" recommended distance listed on the website and was referring to the more in depth details on minimums based on situation (basking spot temperature and type of animal) as Bob discusses on the FAQ portion of his website.

I agree with you Torey on the need to abide by minimums and stressed the fact that it would be a good idea to use a reliable uvb meter even when playing around with minimums. The uvb output of Mega Rays is above that of many other bulbs but I think Bob backed off a couple years ago on the uvb levels he was requesting from the company so the level on the average bulb today (those not ordered with specific level) is lower than those four years ago. I remember when the level was typically 300 uW/cm2 at 12”.

Rosebud, I know Bob and have had discussions with him on his Mega Ray including discussions on minimum distance. I was using and promoting Westron uvb bulbs when Bob was still tweaking his Mega Ray with the company.
No one is suggesting that you cannot continue to use whatever minimum distance you want with your animals. I merely pointed out that your factually stated minimum numbers conflicted with the website of the person who owns and sells the product. If you feel that Bob’s website is out of date or inconsistent with his beliefs, you might want to contact him to change several areas of his website regarding minimum distance so that it follows along with his verbal recommendations and your claims on this forum.

I have been using westron SB bulbs at 10-11 inches for years and have not witnessed any issues with any of my animals. Then again, I typically do not use brand new bulbs in these enclosures (have enough enclosures that I rotate) and have a reliable uvb meter to validate levels at specific distances so I am not flying blindly in the dark and I am able to choose a specific level of uvb. While I would not hesitate to use these bulbs at this distance for a uromastyx, bearded dragon, or chuckwalla, I would not use the same setup for too many other reptiles. Again, the situation is somewhat dependent on the animal.

Hon, I have no problems with Bob, his web site or his recommendations. I am not the least bit worried about my animals because they are all picture perfectly healthy, verified by a vet, and all are roughly 14- 20 inches or more from a megaray depending on their heat requirements. I suggest that if anyone else is worried, call Bob. His numbers are all over his web site.

” Hon, I have no problems with Bob, his web site or his recommendations.”

Sweetie Pie, I do not think that you are getting my point so I will give it one last shot.

You made a point blank statements regarding minimum distance on a Mega Ray stating ‘definite’ minimum figures which conflicts with some of the data listed on the website of the product you are referring to. My point is that Bob himself has posted a minimum distance of 10” for some of his bulbs based on specific animals/situations and your statements indicate that there is a ‘definite’ 12” minimum distance requirement. There is not a concrete definite 12” minimum as Bob’s own words and my years of experience with distances under 12” proof otherwise.
I guess my bigger point is that you have made several posts on this forum that come off as factual when they are nothing more than opinion- some inaccurate. While this post is not a big deal as error would be on the side of caution, I think that posts that state opinion as fact can lead to confusion for those that are new- especially if those pseudo factual statements are inaccurate.

not looking to start a new UVB-no UVB debate here, but...

we have raised Uros from hatchling to adults laying good eggs in a single year with no full spectrum lighting at all. other lizard species as well.

calcium placement and use is dependant on access to heat and diet, as opposed to fancy pants bulbs.

you can create a wonderful 130F basking spot for a Uro using a 50 watt Halogen bulb, for all of $10.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Yes, apparently uros can go without UVB, as can monitors, but that doesn't mean they don't prefer it, and it certainly doesn't mean that other lizard species can. Mine have a choice and truly pout if their UVB bulbs go out. Even Doug Dix is now recommending the MVBs because their coloring and behavior is undeniably improved in the presence of MVBs. I have seen the difference and so have most of the people that I know who use MVBs. I will not make a similar argment for florescents.

Robyn, I've asked this question several times to you people who diss UVB, and never get an answer. Why would you deny a sun loving creature UVB that gets UVB in the wild? You are so big on giving them choices, but you deny them the choice of basking under a UVB source?

I've recently gone from regular basking bulbs to MVB's, and the difference in color and activity is amazing. I'd heard other people talking about the difference, but until I moved my Uros into their new AP cages with MVB bulbs, it was hard to believe. The color change alone is amazing for my adult male yellow Saharan, and he DEFINITELY prefers basking under the MegaRay. My two babies are still a bit shy after being moved to their new enclosure, but they seem to really enjoy the MVB also when they don't know I'm looking

Andi

"not looking to start a new UVB-no UVB debate here, but... "

Robyn,

Who you start a debate? No way.

I am curious on a few things… Are you using a d3 supplement or a standard calcium supplement? I am trying to determine whether you feel that with proper heat and diet uromastyx can convert oral d3, utilize standard oral calcium, or maintain proper calcium levels exclusively from the diet. Are your conclusions (calcium placement and use based on diet and heat) based solely on not seeing any apparent calcium deficiency issues with your uromastyx and having had viable eggs? Have you had any radiographs or blood work that indicate good bone density or calcium (yes, I know subjective) levels?

Since starting your ornate project, how many clutches have you had, how many eggs are you averaging per clutch, and what is your hatch rate? I think many of us are curious as to how many of the original animals you still own, whether there have been health issues with any of these animals, and the hatch rate and health of the offspring.

How is ecdysis- fairly quick in large sections or does it take several weeks or months with smaller pieces? I believe that there is a connection between humidity AND uvb and proper (my take) ecdysis.

Glad to see you resurface. Your absence on the uro forum has resulted in a ton of questions but I will limit myself to just a few that pertain to this topic.

Wow, so that was a lot to read after work tonight heh.

Before I get everything together for this project I will speak with Bob, just to be sure placement in my enclosure would provide sufficient, but not overbearing amounts of UVB.