Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a male beardie 2 1/2 yrs old, unfortunetly he is my first beardie and did not know what I was buying, immediately he did not eat except 3 mealworms and 2 crickets in 2 weeks, I started force feeding him, he was with a female so I seperated them and had to continue feeding him, I took him to the vet had a stool sample done everything was clean, she feels he is vitamin and calcium deficite so he got a shot and now I force calcium down his throat daily along with his food, he weighs 9oz only. his lighting and everything is perfect, he will go to his heat source and back out of it, does drink when bathed. it is going on 3 weeks and he still does not eat on his own, fresh greens are in his tank daily. I have been force feeding him baby food that is carrot, broccoli, peas, and fresh veggies, brock, peas, green beans, raspberries. does anyone have a suggestion that might help or is this guy doomed? also when I first got him his stool was a clear gel looking, now that he is being force fed it is more like normal stool but still seems to have a gel appearance. any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks

I have had very good luck with a product called Critical Care from Oxbox. I feel is it far better than baby food. Here is information.

http://www.oxbowhay.com/link.sp?page=CriticalCare

The only downside is that it must be obtained from a vet.

I would skip the mealworms (too much shell) and maybe try getting some Hornworms.

I would monitor his weight. Many of my males hardly eat this time of year but lose nothing. I would only force feed if he is losing weight. 9 oz. (256 grams) is small but I have had adults in that range before that have done very well.

It's very stressful for an animal to be force fed. I would certainly evaluate if it is absolutely necessary. I have one I am feeding now and I only do it every other day. This creates enough input that he poops about every 8 days and is putting on weight.

ok so do I just not feed him for a few days and see if he loses weight? he also acts lathargic (not spelled right) but I know he is not because he does drink, he also plays dead alot, I am not feeding him mealworms now, I did feed him some waxworms, got two down his throat.

also why would they not eat this time of year?

I rehabilitate a lot of sick beardies. My best suggestion is to get a weight scale that weighs in 1 gram increments and then weigh him every day and write it down. I would only give him maybe 2-3 ml of food every other day. After a few weeks you will have established a trend and can adjust his food intake as necessary.

The most significant time to weigh him is after each bowel movement. If each time he loses weight from the last bowel movement then you should increase his intake or change his diet altogether. Ideally he should be slightly heavier after each BM.

Dragons eat a lot and put on weight in the spring and early summer for breeding purposes. Later they become less active and eat substantially less. My alpha male eats at most 8-10 superworms a week and loses no weight this time of year. In April/May he is a bottomless pit. Keep in mind he weighs 600 grams.

ok I will try that, also my vet does carry the critical care so I am taking him in today to get him weighed and critical care. will let you know how he does. thanks alot

so the vet today put him on albon and pancure is that good to give him considering she didnt find anything wrong? well other than she said that he needed calcium and vitamins. I did pick up the critical care there she carries it, so I will start him on that. but was wondering about the rest of the stuff.
thanks

I would not put him on the Albon or Panacur without a positive test result for parasites. Especially not the Albon. My opinion is that the medications will work agaist your goal.

I mix the Critical Care and a 50/50 mixture of Vanilla Ensure Plus and water. This was the advise of one of my vets and it has worked well.

You should also consider this probiotic.

http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=227

I am glad you said that I didnt want to give him anything if he didnt show the need for it. I did give him Acidophiliz from advice off another breeder in texas she recommended it "just in case factor". ok I am not going to give him the others just the critical care and I will mix it like you said, could you please remind me - you said only feed him everyother day? and how many cc's at a feeding, and the feeding is only once a day? I really do appreciate your help - I paid 200 for him, have owned him 4 weeks and cost more than his purchase price for vets and medications. so you help and time is greatly appreciated. oh by the way today at the vets he weighed the same as he did 2 weeks ago, exactly 9oz's

What brand and type (compact or linear/tube) UVB light do you use? Does he get any direct sunlight? Does the UVB (or sunlight) pass through glass or plastic?

What do you use for a basking light? What is the temp. in the basking area?

Do you use any supplements? What brands and how often?
Do you gutload/feed the insects a nutritious diet?
Does anything you feed them (besides greens, veggies and fruit) contain calcium, phosphorous, vitamin D3 or preformed vitamin A?

What greens, veggies and fruit do you feed to the female?

The vet could give calcium shots until the blood levels of calcium are high enough that a shot of calcitonin can be given. Calcitonin draws the calcium back into the bones quickly.

Good luck!

the point is not "what you want to give him"

the point is what the animal NEEDS.

parasite meds MAY be necessary, IF there is a parasite load. the vet gave you meds, did he do a fecal? if there are parasites present, you DO NEED to give parasite meds. if there are no parasites present in a fecal, then you don't.

that is much different than "i really didn't want to give him meds, thanks for reassuring me". that wasn't a reassurance, that was a wise suggestion to only med dose as necessary, not arbitrarily. you STILL need to establish the need though, you just can't ignore it, especially with an animal that is already struggling.

fixing husbandry issues can be nearly FREE, it doesn't cost much money to adjust temps, substrates, diet, etc.

since you still have not laid out your husbandry, you are missing what is perhaps the MOST HELPFUL solution, as well as the cheapest and easiest.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I've never heard of a vet that weighs an animal of that size in ounces. It's very inaccurate and makes me feel a little skeptical about the vet's experience. Is he/she a reptile vet? Have you checked herpvetconnection.com or arav.org to see if their listed?

Anyway I'd give him about 3 ml. in the morning every other day. Each afternoon I'd try to encourage him to eat live food. I would try superworms. You can probably get a small amount at a local pet store.

first thing, if you had read all my posts you would of seen where I had a fecal done and he was clean soooo the point of NOT GIVING HIM THE MEDS WAS BECAUSE WHY GIVE IT IF THERE IS NOTHING PRESENT
2. foods are currently all greens, broc, carrot raspberry, peas, green beans, gut load crickets, waxworms, EVERYTHING IS DUSTED EVERYDAY
3. lighting full spectrum reptile lighting along with 4 hours daily outside in sun
4. heat hot side 102 cool side 83
5. tank 55 gall
6. floor reptile carpet
7. soaking done everyother day
8.WHY DO SOME OF YOU JUST ASSUME I AM AN IDIOT AND DONT KNOW WHAT I AM DOING? I completely went on line to vets any and everything I could do PRIOR to purchasing a sick beardie. my posts were concerning his eating and the meds which the one person has greatly giving me the advice I need to help this dragon (instead of assuming I did this too him since I just got him)I assumed that coming to this forum looking for help to make sure that this vet is doing everything correctly not to get hammered on I am doing this wrong because everyone else has had beardies longer- seems we all need to start somewhere dont ya think.
9. to answer the nice person that has been helping me - I am concerned about her knowledge on taking care of a beardie she told me that she does do reptile however she had to call me after my visit to look up how much too feed him, I thought that was odd and worried me, then when she said to put him on the wormer and albon when there was no scientific proof that he needed them seemed weird so that is why I asked in the posts. I live in Idaho and cannot seem to find a vet that is very knowledgable on beardies. I really want to try your suggestions and see if that works and possible you are right that he is just slowed down on eating the natural way. I would like to definetly keep you posted and see how it turns out.
sorry to get frank but I am actually trying to save his life and need the help from experts that are not automatically going to stomp me in the ground

are your feelings hurt? who's an idiot? i haven't seen anybody post that you are an idiot. i have just seen an active thread with different types of feedback, everyone trying to help your animal.

it isn't about YOU, it is about the lizard. folks don't spend time to post just for the fun of it, people post to try and help. apparently you are just looking for a pat on the back and reassurance that you are a "good person" regardless of husbandry or the health of your animal. sorry, that is not what i do. i would rather discuss the animals, specifically husbandry and health issues.

i don't know you, it is nothing personal, i am trying to point you in the right direction for your animal.

reptile carpet sucks as a substrate. soaking every other day is way overboard to rehydrate an animal, once a week would be fine. every other day only causes more stress for the lizard. and your basking spot/hot spot is hardly even warm.

those are three obvious husbandry mistakes right there. far from "perfect".

102F doesn't even begin to give the animal the energy it needs to fight off infections, med issues, or anything else. it isn't even enough to achieve normal metabolic rates. that is your biggest problem right there.

if you have a proper setup, with proper temps, your animal can deal with LOTS of different issues, and still thrive. with terrible basking temps, it is a sluggish animal just barely able to get around, much less deal with adversity.

your ambient temps are fine, but you have to raise your basking temp. i would suggest a minimum of at least 120F.

you must also have an accurate way to measure that temp. what type of thermometer are you using? LOTS of keepers just guess at temps, and that is why their animals live lifespans measured in months, not decades.

others use dials, or even digital thermometers to try and approximate a basking surface temp using an air temp thermometer. a temp gun is the tool you need to accurately measure and set your basking surface temps.

temperatures are the most important aspect of lizard husbandry. with poor temps, nothing else that you do will really matter, the animal will simply not be able to thrive.

what type of thermometer are you using?

again, this isn't about you, or me, or somebody's tender feelings. it is about the lizard. you need to get the husbandry up to speed before you can expect to see the animal make a turn around.

best of luck.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

FYI, I also find your posts sarcastic and insulting. Questions and comments should be phrased in a non emotional, non sarcastic way. Any sentance that begins with "Gee" is not going to make anyone feel good.

flukers thermometer halfway down tank however they have a reptile tree that they can get all the way to top close to heat, ok I can take out the reptile carpet, however seems everyone has a "different opinion" what what is good to use? so now I am confused for flooring. repticare ceramic infrared heat emitter for night time, zoo med basking spot lamp for day, the lamps I cannot remember the name but they are specific for reptile to replace sunlight, in one of my posts I said they are out in sunlight for 4 hours daily, half cage is in shade and half in sunlight so they can go back and forth. we plan on making them a safe cage to be able to go out during the day for the summer, but not at night because I cannot regulate the temps.
and sorry robyn but your first posts have been very offensive to me, maybe you didnt mean to make it that way however may I suggest rewording to not make people feel like idiots because they want help. I am not upset I just felt like you needed to know that is exactly how you made me feel.

BDlvr I am happy to report that last night he was actually running around on the floor with the girl beardie, he actually acted like he felt good. yahhh maybe progress

I'd get rid of the night heat. BD's need to cool down and slow their metabolism at night to sleep properly. Exception would be an infection or temps below low 60's.

ok thanks

"everything is perfect"? really?

gee, i have kept reptiles for 15 years and i still find it a challenge to idealize a setup, especially with lizards.

so what exactly is "perfect"? i am going to guess that it is actually not perfect, and probably the source of your problem.

if you would actually list your husbandry details, then perhaps folks would be able to give contextual help.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles