Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was talking to a vet about my kingsnake sneezing. She said that it sounded like he may have some substrate or dust in his nose and was trying to get it out. I use crushed walnut shells for my kingsnake. Has anyone else had a snake that got substrate stuck in its nose causing it to sneeze to get it out?

Does the vet know for a FACT that it doesn't have an upper respiratory infection?....this is a VERY common cause of "sneezing", and some other additional signs of RI are refusal to eat, gaping of the mouth, runny discharge and bubbles from the nostrils and/or mouth, and a "wheezing or "clicking" sound that happens as the snake breathes. This can be heard if the snake's head is gently put to your ear in a very quiet environment, and arefully listened for. If this is the case, the vet should have definitely picked up on it if the vet has any snake experience to speak of at all though, and a hike of a few degrees and certain reptile "friendly" antibiotics would be necessary.

I have heard of things getting into the nostrils of snakes before, and I suppose it's quite possible that a small grain of the crushed shell could have entered into the nostril from it burrowing into the shell substrate.

I've heard some bad things in the past from crushed walnut shell substrate, and I personally would never use it. I use strictly Aspen bedding,....although I have also used some other types of substrate as well over several decades. I also keep a close eye on the snakes during feeding as well to make sure any pieces seen are carefully taken out with a ultra-long pair of tweezers now and then.

Another thing that I have seen that causes a snake to "sneeze" although VERY uncommon,....is when the shed skin first starts to loosen around the nostrils, it can become loose at the nostril opening, and become quite bothersome to the snake,...causing the snake to expel air quickly in an attempt to get rid of the annoying cause. Once the snake begins to shed past this nasal area,....problem GONE!.

best regards, ~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

He has very good appetite, no gaping mouth. no discharge or bubbles, no wheezing, from what I could see his mouth his a healthy pink color. Occasionally I can hear a clicking sound, but he does it rarely and he did not do it for the vet.

He just shed about maybe a week ago.

He frequently burrows at night.

He has been rubbing his right nostril along the sides of his hide boxes or on his back.

He is fed in a separate container that doesn't have any substrate in it.

I also clean his cage top to bottom every month and replace the bedding as well as cleaning any fecal matter I see. And his feces is not runny, bloody, or particularly sweet/foul smelling.

The weird though is he has been kept on the walnut shells for about a year. So why is it now bothering him?

I will try switching his substrate out for newspaper to see if that changes anything.

>>"The weird though is he has been kept on the walnut shells for about a year. So why is it now bothering him?"

* Nobody is saying that the shells are the definite cause of this.

"Occasionally I can hear a clicking sound, but he does it rarely and he did not do it for the vet."

* I strongly suspect that it could still very well be an RI that was overlooked by the vet,.....but who really knows for sure.

If the snake was kept at temps in the 70's, that is a common cause of respiratory infections. They are best kept at temps of around 79 to 84 degrees.

hope it gets better!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I personally despise crushed walnut shells and think it should be banned. My bad experience stems from a bearded dragon that was kept on reptile carpet most of it's life and then sold to a pet store, which in turn put the beardie in a cage with crushed walnut shell bedding.

I don't know if there was something on the shells that tasted good to the beardie or if it's inquisitiveness caused it to constantly test the substrate. Either way it consumed a large amount of it before I bought it from the pet store. It died a horrible death from impaction, even after $200 in vet bills. The particles are too large & rough and doesn't break down, causing blockage between the stomach & the intestines.

I'm well aware of the differences between a lizard and a snake, I also noticed you feed your snake in a different container, but the potential is too great just for our personal satisfaction of having a good looking substrate versus a safe & effective one.

"The weird though is he has been kept on the walnut shells for about a year. So why is it now bothering him?"

Burrowing in the crushed walnut shells the snake has been fortunate up to this point. The odds could've finally caught up with it and it could've had a piece of shell get lodged in it's nostril.

I've always said that if you wouldn't feed an animal on the substrate within it's cage then you shouldn't be using that substrate. It's just a matter of time.

I hope your snake turns out just fine.

Warning!
Below is a graphic photo of the bearded dragon I mentioned earlier. You can see the crushed walnut shells mixed in with crickets in it's stomach. It really was pitiful.

Have a good one!
HH

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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Sorry about your bearded dragon. It's sad that so many pet stores do not properly care for the well-being of their animals.

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If there is substrate in his nostril how would a vet get it out?

I took out the shells today and put in the newspaper while he ate. So I'm really hoping it's just the dust that's getting to him. He ate both weanlings with the same vigor as always.

How is the snake doing now on newspaper?
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Mark

Thanks for asking.
He has improved some. I didn't hear him sneeze yesterday or the day before, but he continues to rub his nostril along his hidebox and on his back. He hasn't made any clicking noises either.

Sounds like walnut dust (or a walnut particle) is still in his nostril. It may come out in time. At least you know now that this snake has an allergic reaction to walnut, even if not debilitating. Keep monitoring and good luck. This snake isn't the first to have a reaction to walnut.
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Mark

If desired, try coir fiber (shredded coconut husk). It is a great substrate for kings, and I haven't seen a bad reaction from it yet. Or newspaper if desired. Aspen may be OK too. You'll just have to try and see.
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Mark

I think I will switch him over to aspen with news paper underneath. I already have a bag of it. I had been mixing it in with coconut fiber for my corn snakes just to get rid of it.

I also set him up with a new vet this Saturday, mostly to ease my mind. I figure that way I can know for certain why he is sneezing. The other vet worked at a pet store, so they could be wrong as they pretty much just held him up to their ear. This new vet I think he also treats a local zoo's reptiles.

I'll post what the vet had to say when I get back from the vet.

I think the idea of getting a second opinion from this other "zoo" vet is a very good idea!

Hope things go well!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

The vet did some blood tests and he is completely healthy. There is some substrate debris in his right nostril, but it is extremely small. The debris was the cause of his sneezing. I'm now going to just keep him on aspen bedding to prevent this from happening again.

Here are the two reasons snakes in my collection sneezed.

1. Prior to shedding. The loose skin around the nostrils causes that.

2. Bedding. Dusty bedding that contains oils. Ground walnut shell has caused it in a few snakes, even when others were fine on it.

In all cases I thought it was a respiratory infection, and it turned out never to be that. Easiest thing to do - change the bedding. Use newspaper first, since it is completely benign. If the wheezing stops in a day or two, you know what gives. Then introduce another substrate if you wish and see if the wheezing starts. I had one snake sneeze on any wood-particle product, but was just fine on newspaper, soil or coconut fiber.
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Mark

The two corns I rescued sneezed a bit when I first got them (the previous owner though they were hissing! *rolls eyes*), but after taking them off the cypress bedding he had them on, they quit. When I took one of them to work on Tuesday, I put him in the drawstring bag the guy had given me for transporting them, because I knew the snake would be less stressed in the bag and I could warm him up quickly while he was still in it. I heard him sneeze four or five times while I was at work and when I got home, I turned the bag inside out, only to find lots of cypress dust & particles left in the bottom. Both bags have now been thoroughly washed.

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Holly

0.1 Lavender California Kingsnake (Lizzie Borden) (missing )
1.0 Florida Kingsnake (Eddie Gein)
0.0.2 Cornsnakes (Lyle & Erik Menendez)
1.0 Bearded Dragon (Charley Manson)
1.0 Orange Marmalade Cat (Oliver)
1.0 Black Cat (Shadowfax)
1.0 Egyptian Arabian (Bagan) (Deceased )
1.0 Tennessee Walking Horse (Durango)

2.0 Toddlers (Justice & Trevor)