Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I read in the paper today that U.S. Sugar is going to sell 300 square miles of its property to the state of Florida for Everglades restoration. That is a chunk of land, I'd say...

Someone here in one of the Fla herp societies, maybe you can help us put together a letter writing campaign , so the Fla "gummint" knows we're watching and knows we're interested in doing the right thing here. How long have we been waiting for them to get in gear? I would imagine out of state voices are just as important, particularly as tourist dollars.

let's go.........

daveb
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in the light, you will find the road...

Some of us in Florida fear the real reason behind the rush to get rid of the sugar producing land is to eliminate another source of alternative energy, pronto. Brazil uses sugar cane to produce ethanol, which is four times more efficient than using corn. With the recent flip flop by our governor who now supports offshore drilling instead of utilizing sugar or existing viable alternatives to oil, the timeliness of his sudden interest in “Everglades restoration” looks suspicious. I’d rather see that land used to grow sugar cane for energy rather than see it flooded with water. If it were responsibly grown without the over use of pesticide and fertilizer (probably not as important if producing an energy crop rather than a food crop) the land, and it is land, would be closer to a suitable habitat for nature than a flooded holding pond. The water flows south to the Everglades either way. There will be no gopher tortoise, deer, bob cats, indigoes or kingsnakes in a holding pond, so who do I write to?

all other things aside- corn vs sugar, fertilizer, whatever the topic may be- a gallon of ethanol has ~76,000 BTU, a gallon of gas has ~116,000 BTU. No matter what crop it comes from, Ethanol has about 2/3 the energy of gas so you have to burn a lot more (1.5 :1) to get the same amount of energy. That is expensive and probably not "environmentally friendly". I would love to have an environmentally friendly solution just as much as anyone, but until you can overcome the energy hurdle, it isn't going to fly.
Lots of big companies will get your money, but you won't get any results, hahahahahaha...

getting back on track, I believe water has always has been Florida's greatest resource. if they are really going to restore water flow to the Everglades over 300 square miles, I would love to write in as a tourist with economic $$$ for the "gummint" to do the right thing. even if it only benefits the most common species then I'm for it. Just ask the passenger pigeon- what's common today isn't common tomorrow.

that's all...

daveb
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in the light, you will find the road...

...is that these restoration efforts will be a significant blow to the Florida kingsnake's continued existence in the wild.

...maybe I can find a freakin' rainbow snake!
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

They are not restoring water flow. They are creating artificial ponds where the land used to be. They are changing a rainy season cycle of wetlands to be a lake. The water doesn’t disappear, unless it evaporates off a pond. It goes into the aquifer and what doesn’t flows south into the “river of grass”. The problem is not really the flow of the water, it’s the quality of the water as farm run off. If the run off was clean, no problem. The cane fields are known as a great breeding ground for King snakes, an important indicator of the health of the food chain there. In some ways it is thriving as is. Even if you take the agriculture away, why turn it into a pond? It doesn’t make any sense if you want to make a “natural” area, or restore it to what it used to be. The water will go into the ground and restore our source of drinking water either way, clean or dirty- that’s the only decision. Sorry to go off, but it is a king snake issue for sure.

Glad you have the final word already on what will be in years to come.
I'm hoping you're wrong and that flow will be restored...whether intentional or not.
You could argue that the kings are there in numbers because of artificial "setup",no?
Who's to say there will not be a better balance in the future?
I like to find kingsnakes as much as the other guy.
I do not think the current situation is best.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Hey Mark,
how's the obstetric ward?

so do you think it was a good idea or a bad idea to bring this up? hahaha... I was thrilled to see it in the newspaper but as we all know the newspaper doesn't actually tell us any news.

I hope you find a rainbow snake!

daveb
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in the light, you will find the road...

Not to mention - they need to provide more natural habitat to help preserve the south florida locality burms.
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I decided my old sig was too big.

no post
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

...but if there is 6" of water everywhere for 300 square miles, won't the eggs drown?!?!?!?

daveb
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in the light, you will find the road...

I remember an article in Reptiles and amphibian magazine (the little one) about how big floridana got in the sugar cane fields. It came back to me right after I hit "post message". If it is a significant issue all the more reason to write in and get voices heard. Obviously if floridana has lost a lot of territory elsewhere in the state and this is a stronghold, that issue should be addressed and not just make floridana a species of special concern. That would certainly put a damper on Rainer's National Brooks King Expo...
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in the light, you will find the road...

Just WHAT is done with the 300 square miles. What SHOULD be done is large scale grading to reestablish the natural (and long-defunct) "Sheet Flow" of water flowing southward gradually to the 'glades. A 'big holding pond" will not cut it!

That said, I have to come down on the side that we at least have to try-even if it does reduce some kingsnake populations. I first visited the glades as a youngster in the late 60s, and it was a wonderland! Birds of every description swarmed in vast flocks that blotted out the setting sun, and every area of open water was teeming with native bass, sunfish and gar.

When I returned finally, in 2000, I was apalled. Water birds were reduced to stragglers, flying by in pairs and trios. And the canals now teem with oscars and tilapia. I can honestly say that I did not see one bass in a full day of looking! Most plants aqnd herps i saw were exotics. And tthe sawgrass was greatly reduced.

I know many in the present generation have never seen the Everglades in anything like its original state-and that is a shame. I see this as an attempt to do better, and in my opinion it is worth a try.
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

you and mark reflect what I hope for, too. Once they stop pumping all that extra phosphorus, etc., into the glades it can return to its low nutrient status and the sawgrass will outcompete the exotics- probably on its own if the restoration is done correctly. I bet most natives will outcompete exotics if the hydrology and nutrient balance is corrected. build it and they will come, hahaha...

daveb
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in the light, you will find the road...

the gummint has been findin our steels way too easy cauz the glades are shrinkin all the time. gummint aside, a shiner gotta make a livin.

"in the light you will find the road, in the dark you will stub your toe"

have you been moonlighting to get your masters in moonshining? BTW what does an acre of sawgrass go for these days? maybe I will start my own swamp and choose my own animals, lol.

"in the light I can watch you stub your toe on the road"

daveb

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in the light, you will find the road...

....that????
I swear.... I just heard "Duelling Banjos"
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

not dueling banjos but the clanging sound of a revenooer getting hit over the head by the purveyor of all justice El Kabong!!!

"A truck"-the last words of my grandfather.

Back on topic, I certainly hope we can figure out why kings are disappearing in other parts of their range when it appears that they should be doing well.

Here's to the King!
Fingers to fingers, thumbs to thumbs, watch out below, here she
comes!!
:Marrk
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

i guess it comes down to what someone else calls the "grayband question"- are they really rare (becoming rare) or does it just seem that they are?
or...

maybe its too dry above and they're all spending more time below?
maybe the fire ants really are having a barbeque?
maybe its time to start praying?

those are all just questions to which there are many opinions and few answers,lol...

daveb
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in the light, you will find the road...

Who needs "ring knockers" when you've got glass tappers,
huh Howie?
-Phil
A card carrying member of APEC!
A.K.A Alcohol Producing Nations!
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

Nah, I'm not practicing moonshining but in this weconomy maybe that wouldnt be too bad an idea. In the meantime I'll drink it.

"In the road I will find the rock where I stubbed my toe in the light."

what, you mean its bad everywhere? I thought it was just my neighborhood. I'm glad I'm not living the truman show... good morning, good afternoon and good night........!

"to be a rock and not to roll"

daveb
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in the light, you will find the road...

Howie could stub his toe in broad daylight, after a few drinks!
LOL!!! Poor Howie! That's gotta hurt?
-Phil
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Work is the curse
of the drinking class!

I'm probably the only person I know that can stub my head on a good day. lol Phil, are you perhaps trying to tell me something? lol