Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi Everyone--- I posted this snake over on the "What Kind" forum and got a few opinion, along with a suggestion to post him here where there might be some "specialists" who could tell me more.

So, without further ado, what is this guy??

You can also take a look at the thread called "Second Opinion" in the What Kind forum to see what some other folks thought.

Thanks for any and all help.

Sonja

Thats an Indian Python [P. m. molurus], however few are pure these days and while it looks more like an Indian its ancesters possibly in fact probably were mixed with pimbura or who knows what. Nevertheless its a very nice snake and looks to be pure......TC

Check the link at the very bottom of this post and then take a close look at your snake. I couldn't get the detail from your pics.

May as well share, just hatched some Indians about five days ago

Link for scale count comparison

Both Molurus and pimbura have the SAME subocular scale.....TC

We already KNOW it's not a Burmese!.LOL!,.... I was already well aware of the supralabial difference as you also were, so although it's an interesting fact, it means absolutely nothing here.

later!, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Actually, the ID based on scalation is pertinent here. If I'm not mistaken, the original poster doesn't know exactly what he has in that snake he posted pictures of. Although the animal certainly looks like an Indian Python, the simple fact is that there are precious few Indian Pythons in the US that haven't got some Burmese blood in them. While the subocular scale obviously won't ID Indian vs Sri Lankan, it will let him know if his python has any Burmese blood, regardless of appearances. An Indian that has Burm blood in it will usually have the Burm subocular on one side of it's head, and the other side will not have the subocular. While it's really no big deal unless the owner intends to breed it, at least that will give the snake a firmer ID. Just my .02

Vinny

Well, this seems like a good time to throw the whole scenario out for opinions.

No, I have no idea what kind of snake this is, and I have no experience with giant snakes at all.

I run a small reptile rescue and this snake was abandoned and ended up as a stray at a local animal shelter. When his hold time was over, he came to me.

While I do have years of experience with smaller, more common pet snakes, I am at a bit of a loss here with what to do with this guy. My personal experience with bigger snakes stops with boas.

A few points for folks to consider or comment upon:

~normally, as a rescue, we only place snakes into non-breeding homes as pets. However, if this snake is something less common, perhaps it makes sense to actually look for a breeding home in this case?

~Is this snake something so uncommon that a zoo would perhaps want him?

~How is the lack of any history on this snake going to affect placement with a breeder who, presumably, would want to know the genetics of his breeding stock?

~Adoption fee: the snake "belongs" to my rescue, which is a 501c3 non-profit. Normally I assign adoption fees at about a third of the price the animal could be bought at a store. Although we rely solely on donations and fundraising, we are not out to make money, just out to make good, permanent placements. However, with a less-common snake, I don't want to adopt him out "cheap" and then have someone flip him and sell him to whoever offers the most money. Adoption fees are tax-deductible and our organization is 100% volunteer, so any money taken in goes to help the rest of the animals (we rescue reptiles and dogs).

~Another concern I have is finding an appropriate adopter. No matter what this snake is, it seems to be agreed upon that he will be huge. So, that narrows the field of appropriate owners. If he is something "special" I would love to see him go somewhere that he can be appreciated for what he is, perhaps bred, if appropriate, but I know no one who breeds giant snakes, so would love to rely on input from others out there since the reptile community seems to do such a decent job of "self policing" and generally co-operating.

So, there you have it. He can hang out with me until I figure out what to do with him (actually, I don't know if he is a male or female), but I have no intention of breeding him, or even keeping him myself. I would consider keeping him if he were a smaller species, because he is a handsome guy, and easy to handle. But, I sure don't need a 20 foot snake!

So, I welcome anyone and everyone to add their thoughts and opinions to this story!

Thanks,
Sonja
www.roxiesfund.org
sonja_pups@comcast.net

Here is Larry, a more typical type of rescue snake. : ) He needs a home, too.

The snake is very rare in collections and should be placed where breeding is possible; however; it's an endangered species and can't be adopted anywhere out of the state you live in where a commercial transaction is involved. Yes, that includes donations. What state do you live in? Perhaps I can direct you to the right person in your state. If you were in Fl. I would do it as I used to breed a lot of Indians and am considering doing it again if I can find some I like......TC

>>While I do have years of experience with smaller, more common pet snakes, I am at a bit of a loss here with what to do with this guy. My personal experience with bigger snakes stops with boas.

OHHHH how I envy you! I have been running a reptile rescue for 13 years, and while I swim in ball pythons, burms are a norm in my house. We have also had rocks, retics and anacondas, so you might want to look at being very prepared.

>>~normally, as a rescue, we only place snakes into non-breeding homes as pets. However, if this snake is something less common, perhaps it makes sense to actually look for a breeding home in this case?

Unless it comes up as endangered and not rare in the pet trade, this wouldnt apply. Or at least here in my rescue. Giants are so hard to place and my working theory is that if I sent a giant to a breeding home because its different, I would be stuck with more giants down the road. My rescue covers a several state area however.

>>~Is this snake something so uncommon that a zoo would perhaps want him?

Actually some smaller zoos and nature centers are getting into more exotic species of reptiles. I have placed a few very common animals with places like this! Everything from a 75 sulcata to burmese have been placed their. This would be possibly of interest to them. Networking helps. Large zoo facilities may give you the brush off, but smaller facilities might not.

>>~How is the lack of any history on this snake going to affect placement with a breeder who, presumably, would want to know the
genetics of his breeding stock?

Cant help you there, as I don't place my animals with breeders

>>~Adoption fee: the snake "belongs" to my rescue, which is a 501c3 non-profit. Normally I assign adoption fees at about a third of the price the animal could be bought at a store. Although we rely solely on donations and fundraising, we are not out to make money, just out to make good, permanent placements. However, with a less-common snake, I don't want to adopt him out "cheap" and then have someone flip him and sell him to whoever offers the most money. Adoption fees are tax-deductible and our organization is 100% volunteer, so any money taken in goes to help the rest of the animals (we rescue reptiles and dogs).

I have my fees on the top 5 snakes as pretty obscene. I do screen homes, including home visits. Background checks, homevisits, vet checks. With my large snakes I require a lot. I also work in dog rescue (Bull Breed to be exact) and I use much of the same screening process with the large snakes that I would the american pit bull terrier. Its strict, and it includes a lot of follow up. Also remember your contract is binding. If you have a clause in there that requires the animal be returned to you, there is some level of protection. It isn't 100% but it gives you somewhere to start. Also check your laws carefully. For some reason I am thinking there are regs with large pythons in MD, so check that carefully.

>>~Another concern I have is finding an appropriate adopter. No matter what this snake is, it seems to be agreed upon that he will be huge. So, that narrows the field of appropriate owners. If he is something "special" I would love to see him go somewhere that he can be appreciated for what he is, perhaps bred, if appropriate, but I know no one who breeds giant snakes, so would love to rely on input from others out there since the reptile community seems to do such a decent job of "self policing" and generally co-operating.

If you decide you want to go the route of a breeder, there are many well known breeders to start with. Look for the breeders who have been doing this for many years. They will probably want to see the animal before committing, however you can consider reaching out to those who may be at the NARBC in Va, the Hamburg show, or i believe the Harve De Grace (someone please correct me on this name) show might all be a place to network with larger breeders.

>>So, there you have it. He can hang out with me until I figure out what to do with him (actually, I don't know if he is a male or female), but I have no intention of breeding him, or even keeping him myself. I would consider keeping him if he were a smaller species, because he is a handsome guy, and easy to handle. But, I sure don't need a 20 foot snake!

Actually depending on how much education you do with the reptile portion of the rescue, you may want to consider keeping the snake. I can tell you that my burmese bring more people to booths at rescue events than most any other animal(unless I have a Alligator on display). I raise a good amount of funds with a photo booth with the burmese. It is something "cool" people can take home. A photo nets around 9$ profit for the rescue. A slow event is 10 photos. This more than covers the snakes feeding for a few months between shows. It also makes people think about researching before purchase. People are shocked when meeting my beast and hearing she is not full grown yet at 13 feet. Yes maintaining a large snake is always a challenge, but can be done with protocols.
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Cindy
PHFaust

Email Cindy

Land of the Outcasts!

Interesting! I will check when I get home tonight.

Thanks!
sonja

Ok, I just looked carefully at his eyes and to me both eyes look like the sketch of the Indian Python in the link from DMexotics. Of course, take that somewhat with a grain of salt since I am new at this.

I took some not go great pics of his eyes. Unfortunately, neither me nor my camera is up to the task of great close ups, but maybe you can get the idea. I also took him out in the bright sun to take a look at his eyes, and I was amazed at just how bright pink his head is (of course, it didn't show up in the photo), and he has some iridescence to him, too.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Hi ! I work as a volunteer keeper at the Ellen Trout Zoo in Lufkin Texas and I ask our curiater who is a walking text book and he said that the only differance between Molurus & Pimbura is there locality . david