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Intro and Burmese Conditoning question.

bizzybone485 Jul 01, 2008 01:44 PM

Intro:
Well i recently purchased the snake that i always wanted for quite some time.... A Burmese Python. I owned one back in 04' right before i went off to college and wasn't able to bring her/him( didn't know at the time what i know now so i never sexed it.) with me in that living situation. However i recently acquired one and i must say that it brings back memories.These snakes truly are amazing creatures. I also have owned many other Ball pythons that i loved but had to give away as well in 04'. The only one that i kept was the biggest and that was an 02' Colombian Redtail Boa Constrictor and she is amazing. Working for a snake farm that was very much into pythons has me really ready for these exotic animals once shes gets older. Right now she is approximately 37inces long and she just took her first small rat this afternoon from being under my belt since the 25th. Right now she is in a 15 gallon tank but within the couple weeks i will be building her a cage that she will comfortable in and will have more hide boxes and heat zones. I must say that there is a lot of info on this site and will be on here quite often. Thank you to all the burmese owners and great herp experts that have put their words in throughout this forum cause it has really helped me to better understand not only the life of the burmese python but also the best way for me and my burmese live a safe, happy, and healthy life. You guys have some awesome python morphs but i have always been fond of the "Normal" Burmese python. Hopefully one day i will own more because i think they are my favorite. Once again thanks everyone and i look forward to being around here.

Conditioning:
Now onto my question. Well i've learned that its hard to understand what the snake is thinking at all times but it has helped me to put myself in their shoes to help understand what they would do in situations. The first Burmese that i owned never hissed so i was new to this situation therefore i have become accustomed to using a snake hook but once she is in my hand she is as gentle as a baby and stops hissing. Im aware that this is a very common thing with Burmese pythons as they try to be tough. She hasn't bit yet because i have taken very great caution with my actions and with the way that i approach her. I have started conditioning her in the sense that every time i take her out of the cage she gets the hook(hisses a little but before she is out of the cage she is perfectly fine like i said). To get to the point...i'm trying to figure out the best way to condition her around feeding time. I fed her a pre-killed/stunned rat in the bath tub and brought her in the tub with the hook while holding her head with my second hand so there wasn't too much pressure from the hook(coat hanger). While in the tub she was a little nervous and didn't move much but once she smelled the rat as i put it in front of her face she didn't hesitate to take it from my hands and coil it up. After she was done i wasn't sure how to approach her( this is the part that im getting at). Do you guys think that it is ok to use the stick once again? With condition in mind, im afraid that she she will associate the hook with feeding time and this is how i get her out of the cage to handle so i wasn't sure if it was a good idea to use the hook on feeding days and if so then what other alternatives do you use? thanks a lot for any info/input that you may have from personal experience. Thanks for your time and getting this far! haha

Sorry for the long post but i get carried away talking about snakes. Have a great one!
P.s. And i've named her Aphrodite!
P.s.s: Once i figure out how to post pics (through trial and error) i will post them. Thanks once again

Ulysses

Replies (14)

dadspets Jul 01, 2008 09:43 PM

Congrats on your new burm. Yes they are awesome animals. One of my favorites. You will see that alot of people here do alot of differnt things. I for one do not move my snakes out of thier cages when I feed. I do not use hooks on all of my animals either. The ones I do use I only use the hook to let them know I'm coming in to get them. Not sure if this answered your question but by leaving your snake in the cage for feeding and using the hook only to remove out of the cage may help your situation. Just my point of view.
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Education is Everything.......

bizzybone485 Jul 01, 2008 11:44 PM

Thanks a lot for the input...as any is appreciated from your guys that are on here frequently and i know you are one of them. I plan on making a sideways cage for her so i might feed her in the cage when i put here in there but im gonna do this for a few weeks. Ive heard people on here use both ways...both feeding in the cage and outside of it seem to work theoretically because of their adult sizes. They are a pain to feed when they get big. I just don't want to give her the slightest reason why she should mistake me for food. I'm sure its hard to be only able to sense things through smell, and motion so it would only be my fault for not raising her the proper way. I might start later on in the cage but time will tell. Thanks..any other experienced owners input is highly encouraged! Thanks

joshhutto Jul 01, 2008 11:50 PM

Think about it this way. Would you rather her mistake you for food while she is in her cage and you use a hook to let her know you are going to mess with her or when you have her out of the cage when you are trying to handle her. I've seen too many big snakes that were fed outside of their cages go into feeding mode during handling. I've never seen this with animals that are fed in their cage and that were raised with good hook training.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

bizzybone485 Jul 02, 2008 12:43 AM

This is a very good point. This is why i question when people talk about taking the snake out of the cage for feeding. Seems like im gonna be feeding in the tank from now on with the big Burmese. I have done it with my BCI for almost 6 years now and she is fine but wasn't 100 percent on how i should do it with a burmese with such large size capabilities. However i did it with breeders at the farm i worked at but wasnt sure how to handle one that would be held often as a pet. Once again. Thanks a bunch for the input guys!

laurarfl Jul 02, 2008 08:40 AM

When I first got my Burm, he was already 11 ft and housed in an enclosure that was waaaay too small. I kinda scratched my head and thought, can he physically eat in that cage and do I want to feed him outside of it? Well, my dh and I tried to feed him oustide...literally outside. It was a surreal event, never to be repeated, and we have fed inside the cage with proper conditioning ever since. We also bought a large hook right away. If I was raising a Burm from a hatchling, I would still feed inside the cage from the beginning, use a hook for handling, and for what it's worth, we knock on the cage before feeding the Burm and boa, too.

bizzybone485 Jul 02, 2008 09:41 AM

This seems to be the common method for everyone so i guess i will continue to do it in the cage. Thanks everyone!

HappyHillbilly Jul 02, 2008 02:05 PM

Welcome to the forum!

Feed in the cage. Always.

I read this thread late last night but didn't have time to reply. While reading it I actually thought, "Where's Laura? She's got a story about feeding outside of the cage that's a prime example." By the way, in Laura's post, "dh" stands for "dear hubby". Well, they put the word "dear" to the test. Hahaha!!!

Unless you're real familiar with snakes it's hard to tell when one has had it's fill of prey items and switched out of feeding mode. And most snakes will become obese if we feed them till they're full every time, mostly due to our lack of being able to provide proper exercise & environment to effectively control their metabolism.

Never use a hook on a snake when you're going to feed it. Use a hook only for handling purposes, to signal a handling session, by tapping the snake or stroking it.

I also suggest finding a cheap pair of 3ft long grabbers to use for putting prey in the snake's cage.

Take care!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American


www.natures-signature.com

bizzybone485 Jul 02, 2008 05:33 PM

Thanks a lot Mike and all the rest of you. Once again it makes a lot of sense why feeding one of these potential monsters inside the cage is a good idea for the sake of the animal and safety. I will invest in some grabbers when i get to the store that's for sure. That's what we used at the Farm that i worked at and they sure were handy. It was a procedure to feed those giants. As far as reading snakes, with owning a Colombian Redtail for 6 years i have learned how these creatures act in their different moods so thats not a problem but i just wanted to get this down to a science to where there is minimal mistakes later on down the road when she could potentially kill a man. haha Also, Id like to hear the story about Laura. Thanks y'all!

laurarfl Jul 02, 2008 07:46 PM

You don't want to hear the story...LOL! It's just...dumb...stupid human tricks. Let's just say that after the 11 ft python ate the humongous rabbit on my driveway for like 30-45 minutes, we covered him with a comforter to move him inside. The real clincher is when my husband still asks if we should try to feed him outside of the cage...and he's serious!

I'm never sure what abbreviations people know and I post on some family boards. Dh is always dear husband, dd is dear daughter, dk is dear kids, etc. Sorry about that!

Another thing I noticed...I bought 3' grabbers from a reptile supply on-line store and I can't pick up or manipulate the rabbit with it. I wonder if my tongs are just stinky or if I'm doing it wrong? I end up tossing the bunny in there and pushing it over.

bizzybone485 Jul 02, 2008 08:07 PM

You threw a blanket over it...haha. I wonder what people thought when they saw a huge Burmese python eating a huge rabbit on the driveway..lol.

HappyHillbilly Jul 02, 2008 10:44 PM

"You threw a blanket over it"

Yeah, they were smart to do that. We only hear/read about the ones that don't protect their self. An 11ft burm in feeding mode is a force to reckon with.

Laura,
I hope I didn't embarass you and/or your dh, I was mostly thinking about the humorous way you had told the story. Trust me, I can top the "I can't believe I did that" aspect. So you're not alone. Haha! The problem is that most people wouldn't believe my story, thinking I'm one of the biggest liars in the world. Haha!!!

Later!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American


www.natures-signature.com

HappyHillbilly Jul 02, 2008 10:56 PM

My local flea market has a vendor with "everything's a dollar" type merchandise. I pay $2 or $3 for the grabbers in the photo below. I buy several at a time & they usually last over a year or so.

I can easily hold onto a baby rat's tail with these and they hold 6lb rabbits well, too.

For a cheap snake hook take a look at the ones I make out of a $4 or $5 camping fork. happyhillbilly.com/snake_hook/

They're lightweight and aren't recommended for lifting large snakes but work great for the general purpose of a snake hook to signal handling sessions.

Ya'll have a good one!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American


www.natures-signature.com

laurarfl Jul 03, 2008 07:54 AM

Love the hook! The grabbers I have are silver metal (galvanized?) and aren't that great. I do have arthritis and I don't have a strong hand grip, so I wonder if that's part of the problem. I also think the metal is slick and needs some traction.

Naw...that's not an embarrassing story, it's just really weird. And I don't think anyone saw it because it was under our carport between the two cars and the open garage. It just reminded me of some Croc Hunter parody...(spoken with thick Aussie accent) "Quick mate, I'll throw the comforter over him and you jump on behind me...Wait, where'd his head go? Crikey, there he is, what a beauty!"

HappyHillbilly Jul 04, 2008 06:50 AM

Ha! Ha! Loved the Croc Hunter parody!

I wonder if gluing strips of something like 50-grit sandpaper to the inside of you grabbers' jaws might help to give it a bit more traction.

Hang in there!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American


www.natures-signature.com

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