Reptile & Amphibian Forums

One of my Mali Uros is an adult male. No doubt. The second (younger) Uro is female (i'm pretty sure). When I got the second Uro, the male did his head bobbing ritual, and they were inseperable. That was in March of this year. They slept in the same hide box, basked together in the high-heat area. They were always touching, and always next to each other.

Now the male hisses and bites the female. If he sees her on the high-heat basking spot, he attacks her. He chased her out of his hide box (she now sleeps in her own hide box), and he bites her every chance he gets. What is going on? I have had her (I'm still pretty sure it is a "her" for almost five months. Any ideas? I really would hate to sell one of them, but I really can't spare another 6' x 3' area for a second pen.

I don't think there's much choice. You can't make them get along. If he's actively chasing and biting her, the sooner they are separated, the better. Immediately is a good plan.

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Torey
Eugene, Oregon, USA
1.1 Saharan Uros (Joe and Arthur)
3.0 Mali Uros (Spike, Turtle, and Tank)
1.1 Ornate Uros (Scuttlebutt and Shazzbot)
0.1 Collared Lizard (Rorschach)
2.0 Green Anoles (Bowser and Sprocket)
1.1 Chubby Housecats (Roscolux and Jenny)

you can TRY to take them both out and into separate temporary situations, and clean everything, change the substrate, and rearrange the entire cage, maybe even move the cage or other things in the room or both, have two hides(same temp), two food bowls(if you use them)or two separate places to eat, and two basking spots(same temp) and reintroduce them into the cage at the same time but don't be surprised if the dominant one claims everything as his own anyway.

This often happens after such a time of bonding , and so called HAPPY TIMES. Once it starts atleast in my case it did not stop. I had to seperate or one of my uros no doubt would have been killed by the other.

In my case it was a large female egyptian, who lived (lovingly for THREE years.... with a male saharan) Until a day like your speaking of, I kind of ignored the lil nips by her to him for a couple days, then I was in the room one day and saw her pick him up in her mouth like a toy and start to shake him. NEVER lived together again.

It's a shame, but if you can not house the 2 in different enclosures, you may have no option but to find one a home. But for now put the smaller of the 2 in a rubbermaid container, they are inexpensive, you can cut the middle of lid out and hot glue window screening on to the rest of top *( the metal kind) so you can put a basking light on top when done, and it will not burn.)

This will provide a temporary and safe home for one of them while you decide what you will do.

I wish you the best and hope it all works out. Let us know how it goes. Just don't keep them together , believe me, it (the aggression) will continue, and only get worse.

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PHEve / Eve

I for one would like to see a dorsal and ventral view of the one
you're saying is "pretty sure it's female".

These two were put together in March (pre breeding season)
and the male initiated some courting moves (head bobs etc).
It seems the male calmed down soon after the introduction and
accepted the newcomer as just a cage mate till just recently or
during the last couple of months (well into breeding season).

Being pretty sure on sexing a young mali could be a good guess
at best. If it is indeed a young male it makes sense that the anxious
older male would become aggressive toward another male during
the breeding season. How large (gram weight / svl / stl) is the
younger mali.

What criteria are you using that leads you to be "pretty sure it's female? Maybe the lack of dorsal color/pattern? The head size or shape? The lack of post anal bulges or enlarged/waxy pores?

John

As I was reading through other messages on this forum I just now saw a photo of a female Uro. My "female" has yellow patterns on "her" back. I did not realize they should be tan, not yellow. That explains a lot. I think I understand the problem now.

There are females which can be as colorful as males.
Although they are not the norm they're around just the
same. But, a male mimic female will not show a male
like pattern or black points until she is adult in size. So
if you're so called female is already showing some
yellow back color/pattern already at a subadult size,
there's a good chance that it is a male. If it produces
eggs then this theory goes out the window ... lol.

Here's a couple of shots of a male mimic female
which produced some nice babies for me some
years ago. I guess the proof is in the pudding ... or
in this case, the egg!

John

My female is actually a male-mimic as well. If it wasn't for the fact that she had laid eggs before, she looks very male.

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1.1 Mali Uromastyx (Ra, Isis)
1.0 Satanic Leaf-tail Gecko (Diablo)
0.1 Satanic Leaf-tail Gecko (R.I.P. Samael)
2.0 Tabby cats (Cloud, Magus)

I obtained both of my animals from PetSmart (yeah, yeah, I know ... ) BUT my male was a young adult when I got him (probably raised on a uro farm in Africa or wild-caught). The claws on his front feet are extremely long - almost like a Tegu (All males in the Tieade group have much longer front toe claws than females. I know that these are Uros and not Tegus, but the difference in the length of the front claws is quite noticeable) The "female" has relatively short front claws. Although this is a poor criteria to look at, does your male happen to have noticeably longer front claws than your female? Just curious.

Actually, it's quite the opposite. My female is the one with the long claws and my male's claws are pretty small. There is a size difference between them (her being the noticeably bigger one) so maybe that's a factor. It's very hard to tell the two sexes apart, even the experts get stumped. Short of either one of them laying eggs or getting a DNA test done, there's no 100% way to tell them apart. Well, mating with each other is a clue too.

If you want, you could try emailing Doug Dix some pics of both your uros (top pic, profile, belly shot, etc.) and maybe he can help you.

Sorry I can't help you out more than this.
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1.1 Mali Uromastyx (Ra, Isis)
1.0 Satanic Leaf-tail Gecko (Diablo)
0.1 Satanic Leaf-tail Gecko (R.I.P. Samael)
2.0 Tabby cats (Cloud, Magus)

It is time to separate them.
Normally, my breeding pair of Malis will only tolerate each other during the breeding season. Things are running pretty smooth for those few short months. Then, one will begin to try and run the other one off. In the beginning, it used to be my young male who dominated, but now my female is the one running him off her chosen nesting site.

They are quite happy being returned to their own homes after this period. The stress is not good for them.

Always keep in mind that when you add another uro to the mix, you should always be able to provide it its own home should this situation happen again. I do plan on getting more, but I'm waiting until I have more room so I can get enough cages for everyone.
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1.1 Mali Uromastyx (Ra, Isis)
1.0 Satanic Leaf-tail Gecko (Diablo)
0.1 Satanic Leaf-tail Gecko (R.I.P. Samael)
2.0 Tabby cats (Cloud, Magus)