Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone,

My girlfriend and I are interested in getting our first snake. We're interested in getting a Ball Python. I would like a Black Eyed Leucistic, however, she doesn't agree with the price so we're going to get a normal Ball Python for our first snake.

I've been doing quite a bit of research and have discovered that these snakes are terrestrial as well as arboreal, however, most sites state that they are mostly terrestrial. We have been looking at the Exo-Terra Habitat Kit (18 x 18 x 24) and have become very interested in getting one but we noticed that it is mostly vertical. We would like to have our little guy climb around if possible. My question is: Would this be a bad choice as a terrarium for the snake? Is there not enough horizontal space to create a temperature gradient that would be comfortable for the snake? Does anyone have this particular terrarium? Is there a better choice out there? Thank you all for your time.

p.s. More questions to come :]

Visionariums....
http://www.visionproducts.us/htm7/visionarium.html

Get a divider if you're getting a hatchling-- make the cage smaller for the baby--- then when he's older-- you can remove the divider and give him a bigger cage.

With this option- you'll probably have to buy a bigger cage at some point but there are pleanty of people keeping adult balls in these cages... I have one-- I like it... Costs the same as the habitat you're talking about... as well as most aquariums and things...

Also--- avoid petstores for your snake-- get one from a breeder here-- the above listed sponsors will have *cheap* normals for sale-- or if you want something kinda cool--- pay a little more and get a pastel male.... You can find them for around $100 - $200... depending on the coloring...

Good luck...

~Beth
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The rescue site: www.freewebs.com/okreptilerescue

I agree with Beth-- but also... you might want to keep in mind that balls are noctournal. So, if you want to watch him climb around t all, you're going to need a moonlight bulb, since most of te day he'll just nap in his hide.

Make sure you've got two hides in there, too, one hot one cold.

Good luck!

Also... if you're concerned about price but may want a morph, then it could never hurt to start off with a het for a morph you like. Then if you want to continue on with it later, you can buy another het and breed 'em to get what you want.

Thank you all for the responses.

We're definitely going to check out one of the breeders from this website. We had originally planned on purchasing our snake from the East Bay Vivarium.

As for the terrarium, I think we're still heading towards the Exo-Terra. We will be getting a moonlight and we are both aware that they are nocturnal. Would it be a bad idea to set its basking/hot zone higher up in the cage to persuade it to move about the cage or will it just neglect it and stay in the cold zone? The Exo-Terra measures 24 x 18 x 18 which is about as long as a 10 gallon tank length-wise. We will be providing it many hiding spots so hopefully its agoraphobia won't be much of an issue.

Haha. I know I had heard this before, but had to look it up as I just don't use phobia terms often.

agoraphobia: an abnormal fear of being in crowds, public places, or open areas, sometimes accompanied by anxiety attacks

I suppose that fits a snake's mentality about open areas. Kind of. I know I've read some authors using that term as well, but the basis of the phobia is that there is an abnormal fear - based on what is normal for a human.

As a general rule, Ball Pythons hide all day long, then roam around in their cages at night - with mine usually waiting until after midnight to really come out & cruise. Unfortunately, that also means they don't give you much to look at during the hours you would like to be awake.

Anyhow, your main question. I had to look up the Exo-Terra Habitat Kit as well, as it is something I am really not famliar with. Personally, I think it's a lot of expensive fluff and unneccessary.

I understand that you are trying to do your homework before getting a new pet - and I APPLAUD you for it!! I think you should ask yourself seriously though how important a display enclosure is to you. I hope you have some good books to guide you in your 'homework' in addition to the multitudes of care information available anywhere online - some online sources are unbeatable, and some need some cleaning up, and you really can't be expected to tell the difference at first glance on your own. Anyhow, display enclosures are very appealing, and really get people's attention... but they can also be more difficult to hygienically maintain, especially when you are just learning about a new pet's needs.

I have been keeping reptiles for most of my life, and snakes for more than half of it - and I'm 28. I've kept many different snake species, and I have kept them in many different types of cages; some more display-oriented, with some pretty pea gravel, some on linoleum, I've tried the "critter carpet" substrate they sell in petstores (and I advise you to stay away from it!), and I currently use newspaper. DON'T use sand (the kit looks like that is what is comes with). Personally, I can't find any faults with newspaper: cheap (in my case, FREE), easy to work with, easy to see when it is soiled, easy to replace. It is not the greatest in terms of maintaining humidity levels, but that can be overcome.

When shopping for a cage, I like to search the classifieds for old fish tanks; people are always getting rid of them for cheap, and the glass can be easily cleaned & disinfected. I like to make my own escape-proof lids. Craigslist has turned into a HUGE resource when looking for cages this way. Also, the "critter cage" has been around long enough that I have found some good deals on those in the classifieds - and they come with locking escape-proof lids, and they don't look half bad either! A nice used critter cage may even look nicer than the Exo-Terra Habitat Kit in the long run - it would be easier to maintain and clean.

I hope this helps, and gives you some 'food for thought.' Good luck to you!
Feel free to email me if you have some more questions.

~Rebecca

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1.0.0 Dumeril's Boa '04
1.1.1 Ball Pythons
[1.0.0 '05 Orange Hypo (Specter)]
[0.1.0 '05 Het Orange Hypo (Sylvia)]
[0.0.1 '03 Normal (Sue)]
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40lb darling lap dogs:Brandy&Mara)

Hello Rebecca,

Thanks for the response. Yes, we've been doing our homework. We've been reading a lot of online sites and we've also purchased "The Ball Python Manual". Sometimes there some conflicting information but most of the time the information agrees. We feel that our knowledge of snakes has increased to the point where we can safely and responsibly own one.

We are really attracted to the Exo-Terra Terrarium because of a few things. First of all, we're pretty sure its escape proof. It took my cousin and I about five minutes to figure out how to open the glass front. The glass front is what really attracts my girlfriend and I. We really wanted a terrarium that opened from the front. It also takes a ton of effort to remove the top mesh. So, we feel that it would be an appropriate, safe home for our snake.

As for all the fluff, only the Habitat Kit comes fully decorated. The size that we want, 24 x 18 x 18, only comes with the background rock display. We will be decorating it ourselves and definitely will not be using sand. "The Ball Python Manual" suggested that we use newspaper for a month or two to monitor its feces and urine better. We can switch to a nicer looking substrate after it is eating and defecating on a healthy basis.

The display enclosure is pretty important to us. We would really like its home to be pleasing to look at. But we also understand that we cannot sacrifice its needs for our pleasure, which is why I am trying to find out as much information about this particular terrarium. As of now, it seems suitable. 24 inches in length will provide enough space to make a comfortable temperature gradient. We will be providing many hiding areas for our snake to make sure it feels secure in its new home.

As for purchasing a snake, I've looked through some of the breeder sites on the homepage, aside from Constrictors Unlimited (Black Eyed Leucistic), I haven't really found one that catches my eye. Not saying the sites are bad, but we're looking for a hatchling and most of the sites are offering older snakes. What site would you recommend? Is there a good breeder near the Bay Area? We would really like to see the snake in person and handle it before we purchase it. There is a reptile show coming to San Jose Aug 9th and 10th, how does this community view purchasing a snake from a show? Also, I never got an answer about the East Bay Vivarium, would it be a good place to purchase? Thank you once again.

Hi RoyC,

I don't think you can go wrong with The Ball Python Manual. Very good reference.

As far as some of your remaining caging questions, a lot of this is coming down to personal opinion, which is fine. No worries.

I can tell you my opinion on why I personally don't like the front-opening doors of the cage your are talking about; I have kept some quick-moving snakes before, and I have seen the quick-movers be very difficult to safely put away in a cage that has the opening in the front. A lot of them can get pretty close to getting pinched - heads or tails. I just don't like it. Ball Pythons of course are more like the ultimate couch-potatoes of snakes, and shouldn't give you so much trouble there. Should you have one with the occasionally-fiesty moment or two, a front-opening cage - and more so, a split-door setup that opens in the front - doesn't give me the feeling that I can control the situation as well as with a cage that opens on top. My other concern is that I would guess by looking at the design of those glass doors that they may give when the seam is pushed - and if so, a BP could potentially push its way out of them. Couch-potatoes they are, but they are still strong, and they are still snakes - and there is no better escape artist in this world than a snake!

If the doors don't give when pushed, and you still like the way the doors open, then don't worry about it - I'm just trying to point out what I have seen and how that has shaped my opinion.

As for the size of the cage, I LOVE this Aquarium Calculator! From that calculator, the cage you are talking about would be 33.421 gallons in volume - and that is NOT bad!! I was thinking the cage was quite a bit smaller than that. Yes, ideally, a cage that is short and wide is best for a ground-dwelling snake, but as long as the floor space ("footprint" ) of the cage is adequate - as it appears to be - you should be fine.

Try looking up what I was talking about as a Critter Cage if you aren't familiar with them. They can look very nice too, and if you can find a nice deal on a used one, they get even nicer! (I am really cheap) I like their open-from-the-top design, and that they are pretty much child-proof. I think the black edging also makes them look fairly nice.

I also looked up the Exo Terra glass terrarium you were talking about (as opposed to the Habitat Kit)... did you see they have a short & wide model (PT-2613)? If you haven't already made your purchase, that model looks like it would be the right size for an adult BP... maybe down the road if not now.

What do you intend to use for a heat source? Heat lamps cause a lot of drying issues - and the taller the proportions of the cage, it seems, the more of a problem this can be. I do use heat lamps in my cages, but that is more because I know they work and it is hard for me to change; I am slowly changing to heat tape... but while I have lamps, I have to mist cages daily to maintain proper humidity (I also use terra cotta flower pots for hides, which nicely release humidity over the day). WalMart sells some nice, ergonomic (& cheap) little spray bottles in the hair care section.

Then finally, you asked a lot about where to buy your snake. I currently live in central Illinois, so I can't tell you a thing about the East Bay Vivarium or anybody local to you.

You say you really like the black-eyed leucistics (I'm abbreviating this: BEL), which are pretty high-dollar. I just glanced at the online classifieds here, and Fires seem to be right around $1000, give or take some. The Fire morph is of course the heterozygous form of the BEL, though to the untrained eye, they look a lot like a Normal BP. I still think that's a bit too much to spend on your first pet, but that option is open to you, depending on your budget, as down the line, a Fire bred to another Fire would produce your BEL. Pastels are fairly affordable now as morphs go, too.

You also said at one point that you wanted to start out with a Normal. NOTHING wrong with that approach either - they are MUCH MORE AFFORDABLE - and there are plenty of breeders who would be more than happy to find a good home for a Normal, and would likely be willing to give you a good deal. If you even think for a second that you might want to breed BP's eventually, get a female. They can be a little harder to get a hold of sometimes, but as they have to be about 3 years old before they can breed (while males can breed around 1 year), the female should be the one to get first. Females can also be harder to find to buy as adults. If however, breeding is not anything you are interested in, there are lots of Normal males that need good homes.

Once you know where you stand on that, I would say that the swap would be your best opportunity to meet and talk to breeders, and ask any questions you can come up with. Like I said, I don't know EBV, but it's my guess that you will get the best deal at a swap - just ask good questions and look around a lot before you get attached to an animal and buy it!

Good luck, and I hope this helped, even if it got LONG

~Rebecca
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1.0.0 Dumeril's Boa '04
1.1.1 Ball Pythons
[1.0.0 '05 Orange Hypo (Specter)]
[0.1.0 '05 Het Orange Hypo (Sylvia)]
[0.0.1 '03 Normal (Sue)]
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40lb darling lap dogs:Brandy&Mara)