Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all, I'm not new to KS but am to this forum.

I'm babysitting a nice yellow rat who I found out after I fed her three small rats, is allergic to them. My problem now is that I've just two days ago fed her two adult mice and she's regurged these also. Is this something I should be addressing to a vet or is there something I'm missing that I could be doing? Thanks for any input.

Quig

The enclosure is 32" long X 21" deep X 16' tall. She's on aspen and the temps at the moment are 83 hot side and 80 cool side.

Quig

As the other poster stated, don't feed anything at all for 3 weeks. Two regurges of big meals will take a fairly heavy toll on the snake's system. Dehydration is also a concern right now, so make sure there is fresh water available and a good direct misting once a day wouldn't hurt either. Also as the other poster suggested, feed a much smaller meal after the waiting period and then do not feed again until the snake has had a good defecation. Then feed another small meal, wait for a good defecation and repeat one more time. After three good (small) meals and defecations, you can move back up to normal sized prey.

I am concerned about the amount of food you're giving the snake however. How big is it? I have a large male yellow who is in the 5' range and he only eats 1 XL mouse or 2-3 regular sized mice once every 7-10 days. Sounds like you (and/or the owner) may be overfeeding and if that's the case (honestly, I've never heard of snakes having allergies to anything in over 30 years of keeping the beasties) simply overfeeding is likely causing the "allergic reaction", which I am assuming is a regurge when fed rats.

lower the temperature in the enclosure slightly (80 and 75) and increase the humidity. use a slightly larger water bowl and also drip a little water on the substrate. If a snake is dehydrated, it will regurgitate. Also, the snake might be going into a shed cycle. If the eyes turn cloudy, then that's your problem. Some of my snakes will eat right before they go "blue" and then vomit within 24 hours. Then they begin their shed cycle.

If he does go blue, wait until after the shed to offer any small meals. But either way, give your snake some time to recover.
-----
1.0.0 Great Plains Ratsnake
1.0.0 Corn, Lavender Aztec het for Amel
0.1.0 Black Ratsnake
0.0.1 Texas Rat (tame)
1.0.0 Broad Banded Water Snake, Hypo
1.0.0 Black Bassador Retriever
2.1.0 Godchildren, 1 Evil, 2 possible hets

Every time the snake regurges it loses precious digestive components and it takes time for them to build back up. Let the snake sit for a few weeks and then try a very small meal and wait another week or two before feeding another small meal. I would suggest fuzzies or small hoppers. All you are trying to do at this point is give it enough of a snack to build up it's system for a full size meal.

Maybe someone else who is more familiar with regurge syndrome and yellow rats could give more specific timetables and food sizes.

Sean.
-----
1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
0.1 Silver TPRS
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

>> "I'm babysitting a nice yellow rat who I found out after I fed her three small rats, is allergic to them. My problem now is that I've just two days ago fed her two adult mice and she's regurged these also. Is this something I should be addressing to a vet or is there something I'm missing that I could be doing?"

*** After reading this, I can honestly say that this is a "textbook" situation of what NOT to do!!

First off,...I don't know how big the snake is at all, but they should only be fed a meal that is slightly bigger than the snake is at mid-body to where a slight lump is just visible,...and NOT stuffed with several big meals until the skin is visible between the scales,...especially several of these meals in a row. When they get "stacked-up" in the snake's stomach like this, the last one or two putrify(rot), and the snake regurgitates them in two/three days,... This is an absolute fact.

The snake is NOT allergic to rats OR mice. It was simply fed way to much, and/or too big of a meal. The very very WORST thing you can do when this happens, is turn around and try to feed it even more!. As previously mentioned, regurgitation takes a HUGE toll on the snake's digestive tract,.....it depletes precious acids, enzymes, and gut flora(bacteria) that are absolutely crucial for proper digestion. So after it regurges the first time,...trying to feed it yet more food only causes THAT meal to be regurged as well, ...causing a disastrous "domino effect" that can quickly lead to the snake's death if not properly addressed!....this is absolute FACT!

If you do these few things I mention to the letter, the snake will be fine,...otherwise, it will NOT!

1) Your temps are okay
2) DO NOT attempt to feed the snake AT ALL for another two weeks,...you just delivered two crushing blows to it's digestive system, and you MUST give it this valuable time to recover. Trying to feed more is the very WORST thing you could possibly do!
3) after the two week period,....only offer ONE very SMALL meal, and see if it holds it down for a week or so.
4) If that meal was successfully held down, you offer it another smallish-sixed meal.
5) If things go well for several feedings of very small meals, you could then up the size of the prey item in slightly larger incremements.

Remember!,.....a snake on a normal feeding regimen eats one prey item roughly the size of it's body once every five to seven days depending on it's size/age, not several large meals one after the other to where they're "stacked-up" inside the snake.

hope this helps the snake recover!,..good luck!

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

If the snake was indeed feeding well for the original owner's, and not regurging, things should be just fine if the things I and others have mentioned are followed precisely. But if it was having these problems BEFORE as well,....the snake needs to go to a qualified reptile vet for treatment ASAP!, or it will not last long.

Again, If the snake was having these problems before it was placed in YOUR care, I strongly suspect that a good two dose regimen of Flagyl(metronidazole) would be in order.

One other thing I forgot to mention in my previous post is,...don't ever handle a snake for at LEAST two/three days after a moderately sized meal,....this often causes nervous snakes to regurgitate their meals too.

best of luck!, ~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Doug and all, thanks for the help. A little more info.............she's 72 inches long so I consider this an adult. The meals were 16 days apart, but the last meal was only eight days after the first regurge. First meal was three rat pups averaging 40 grams each which she took rabidly. This didn't leave much of a lump. She's about 2-21/2 inches thick. The last meal was two 30 gram mice which left no noticable lump. She did have a bowel movement so apparently she's at least utilizing some of what she took in, and what she's regurged was basically backbone with a bit of meat attached. I'll give her two or three weeks and try a rat fuzzy in the 8-10 gram range. Thanks again for the advice.

Quig

forgot to mention she had a full shed on the 3rd so I'm thinkin' the humidity is OK, but I'll mist to be safe.

Well, although the initial three meals of a combined weight of 120 grams or so wouldn't put a big "lump" per se in the snake because the individual rats aren't that big in diameter themselves, but when combined together, they make for a very substantial LONG meal, and could very well have been the cause that got this regurge thing going. Like I said in the other post, the latter half starts to rot because it doesn't quite reach the stomach as the first portion does. Then, with the weakened gut system, it regurged the smaller meals that were fed later too.

BUT!,....if fed a much smaller meal next time in a couple weeks, and it does this again,....it would then be time to go straight to the vet for a fecal exam and treatment.

best of luck!

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

If it regurges another small meal next feeding in a couple weeks, I strongly suspect a pathogenic parasite is likely the cause, and depending on what exactly it is, Flagyl(Metronidazole), and/or Panacur(Fenbendazole) would be strong candidates for administration by the vet. I would even suggest it, and see what the vet's response is.

One thing about Flagyl though,....do NOT attempt to feed for at least a week and a half or so AFTER final treatment, as Flagyl kills good bacteria as well as bad in the intestinal tract, so this has to again, allow the stomach to replenish itself again for proper digestion.

Dosage for Flagyl is as follows:

25-50 mg/per kg of body weight(repeat in 14 days)....I use the stronger 50 mg dose, as this drug is well tolerated by snakes.

Dose for Panacur is as follows:

50-100 mg/per kg of body weight(repeat in 14 days)

good luck with everything!, ~Doug

-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"