Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I don't know if its just me, but it seems like Easterns and Floridas have way different personalitys. I have four Easterns(2 males, 2 females) and one Florida box turtle(male). The easterns are really relaxed and layed back for the most part, but not scared. They'll move around once they establish that there's no danger, but they have to think about it for about 30 seconds. But the Florida box turtle is the complete opposite of the Easterns. He's ready to go when you put him on the ground. He doesn't even think about it, he just goes. And he will NOT sit still. He even moves around while he's eating. Just wondering if anyone else sees differences in personality between species of box turtles.

Thanks, Cliff

I've seen plenty of easterns just like your Florida. I think it may just be your individual turtles, rather than a general difference between the subspecies.

Did you have to get some sort of special permit to keep that many T.c. species in Florida? According to the info I have, one can only possess two (total). This includes Easterns, Three Toeds Floridas and Gulf Coasts.

No, I just keep them. I know a fish and game officer that I go out herping with, so I have nothing to worry about, really. In fact, he was over at my house about five days ago, and looked at my collection. He keeps three-toeds and they've produced several times, so he doesn't have anything to say.

Florida doesn't really care about the "little guy" that is in possession of a few more than two box turtles. Still, you should really try for that permit. I have a friend with a permit for 13 Florida box turtles because he could prove that they were all obtained as captive produced.

In general, my personal Floridas and those I have seen are more robust than Easterns. They move about much more quickly and respond to stimuli very rapidly. As babies, they are absolutely insane(for a box turtle)...won't sit still for a second. It is very frustrating when taking pictures. They are even more jumpy than the baby ornata.

The Fish and Game officer I go herping with said he knows nothing about any type of permit to keep more than two eastern, or eastern subspecies. But if I can find that permit, I'll get it, mostly because of what my neighbor would try and pull. She's already called Fish and Game about my sulcatas, claiming, "He's got gopher tortoises." When they came out and said I don't, she pretty much backed off for a while.

Jeeze, your neighbor needs to mind her own darn business and get a life, but with a neighbor like that I would get the permit if you want to insure that you keep your boxies, even though it's obvious fish and game couldn't care less about your collection, they would have to follow the law if called.
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Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

There's an old saying about people living in glass houses who should not throw stones. While your neighbor sounds like a piece of work, you yourself are not exactly in compliance with state regulations: you might want to temper your criticism a bit.

I'm not "compliant" with every inane local, state, or federal law, regulation, or ordinance either, and I doubt that any thinking individual capable of drawing breath is either. There are so many silly regulations on the books that aren't enforced because even the people charged with enforcing them aren't aware of all of them. Regulations that are so nit-picky and specific that they say it's OK to have two of something, but not three, are begging to be ignored. The government was never meant to be that involved in limiting individual freedoms. Regardless of what the regulations specify, these agencies are not concerned about individuals with three, four or five turtles. They're interested in preventing people from getting in the business of buying and selling hundreds of turtles. If I live in a state that allows me to keep the three turtles that I've had for years, and I move across state lines to another state that only allows ownership of two turtles, that's a regulation that I'll be ignoring.

Exactly! Nobody is doing anything perfectly legal, and if they say they are, chances are they are lying. I work a total of two jobs to pay for my house, and when/if the house market goes up in Florida, I'm moving to either Tennessee, or Alabama. You can't buy, sell, keep, ect turtles/tortoises in Tennessee, and you can't have eastern or eastern subspecies in Alabama. I've had most of my animals for over five years, and I'm not likely to get rid of anything, especially my big sulcata.

I think you're missing the point: it really doesn't matter if anyone thinks that such regulations are nit picky or not. One loses credibility if one has issues with a neighbor about their non-compliance with another set of regulations or even common courtesies when one has a less than stellar record oneself. Compare it to complaining about a speeding neighbor, when you have multiple DUI's.

That collection/possession regulations are intended to protect the animals we all enjoy seems to be a facet of this issue that is ignored too frequently. Maybe less time should be spent complaining about it, and instead we become a little more proactive about preservation issues.

hehe!!! I was wondering when you would chime in mj? I always appreciate your views to give a "reality check" to things and issues like this, but I do think Steph has a point about the big picture of preservation, however I too am not one for nit-picky details and "out of control" attemps to control.
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Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

Bonomoc- I know at least some folks moving into Tennessee have had their tortoises excepted from the ban. It may be more difficult with box turtles, since they're native to the state, but it's worth talking to TWRA first before moving here.

A little perspective:
It might be helpful to consider that most localities have stricter regulations governing the quantity of domestic animals one can have, and the vaccination, licensing, breeding and sale thereof, that apply to dogs, cats, cows, chickens, etc.

I know I'm stepping across the line into obnoxiousville here, but when was the last time a government official knocked on your door and asked to see your dog's license, or wanted to count your chickens? The conservationists/environmentalists who initially do the research and approach their representatives with proposed legislation are completely removed from the process/responsibility of enforcing such regulations once they take effect. The people who actually know about turtles, for instance, aren't the ones enforcing the regs, beaurocrats are. There are usually only a couple people in a state agency, if that, that are familiar with these kinds of restrictions, and they don't have time to actively look for violators even if they knew what they were violating. They respond to major complaints, you know the kind I mean. You see them on the evening news every now and then. Nutty lady with 200 cats in her kitchen. Crazy man with 14 foot alligator in his basement. The regs are there to discourage people from getting carried away, but they know from the get-go that they don't have any intention of trying to identify every person with one or two animals over the limit. I'm not encouraging anybody to break any law. I'm just saying that people who have a couple pets shouldn't be looking over their shoulder worrying about the long arm of the law snatching them. I encourage people to use common sense and be informed and responsible about conserving wildlife. Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have someone like you for a neighbor than the nut with the 200 cats. I just think the government's reach exceeds it's grasp on a lot of these issues that involve snooping in our personal business.

" I just think the government's reach exceeds it's grasp on a lot of these issues that involve snooping in our personal business."

See now, I get upset about the so-called Patriot Act and the latest wire-tapping legislation, not this little stuff. But that's just me.

I know. I gotta get rid of this soap box before an angry mob beats me down.

lol, Wow the crazy lady w/20 cats and the nut w/14ft gator are on your local news too, we must live right near each other,LMAO.
Don't get rid of the soapbox brother, but you are preaching to the choir, here. Very well said and very entertaining too I might add, that run on "obnoxious" paragraph just made my day!!!! TRUE,TRUE once again mj keeping it real.
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Jeff Benfer

1.0 pastel Python regius
1.1 mojave Python regius
0.1 normal Python regius
1.3 Terrapene carolina thriunguis
2.3 Terrapene carolina carolina
4.1 Kinosternon baurii
1.1 Malaclemys terrapin terrapin
2.2 double het albino and anerythristicThamnophis sirtalis parietalis
1.0 anerythristic Thamnophis sirtalis parietalis
2.2 Iowa snow Thamnophis radix
0.2 het Christmas albino Thamnophis radix
1.1 double het cherry erythristic, albino Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 melanistic Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
1.1 triple heterozygous for amelanistic,carmel, and stripe Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 anerythristic motley Pantherophis guttatus
0.1 Okeetee Pantherophis guttatus

Thanks. I think everybody has a few kooks like that in their immediate vicinity. Most of the time you just don't realize they're there until you see them on the news. If you talked to my neighbors, they'd probably vote me most likely to pop up on channel 13 at 11 o'clock.