Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I pipped them on day 53, its now day 56. A white film is forming on the fluid in a couple of the eggs. This wasnt the healthiest clutch as 2 died full term. They are starting to smell a bit. I didnt do anything different from any other clutches i have hatched. Here are the pics. Any help or input would be great.

Take them out of the egg. The juice in the egg is becoming sour. Just rinse them off under some tepid running water and place them in your setup on some moist paper towel. They should be fine. If you leave them too long some of them will just sit in the egg and dry out. They may still have a bit of unabsorbed yolk hanging out. That will be absorbed in no time and then the umbilicus will close up. Hope this helps.
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Dino W.

In about 20 years in this hobby, I've never heard anyone reccomend removing hatchlings from eggs. In fact, the advice is always 100% the opposite - Leave them in the egg until they are ready to leave on their own...

this exact thing was done a few years ago at one of the huge reptile shows. The snake had completely absorbed all the yolk and the baby still ended up dying over the weekend. that is the worst advice I've yet to see on this forum.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Witch advise are you refering to? Leaving them sit in an egg of rotting fluid or taking it out of the mess?
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Dino W.

First off, prove to me those eggs have rotting fluid in them. This could be one of this persons first clutches of eggs incubating and may not quite have an idea of what an egg smells like after it's been open for several days. If that egg isn't going bad then you just advised this person to remove a baby from a perfectly fine egg. If the baby snake will move when poked it is ok for the time being and unless there is something obviously wrong there is no need to perform such drastic measures as you are telling this person to do. I guess everyone doesn't think about the experience level of everyone reading these posts and the possible side effects of such advice. This is the reason that sooooo many inexperienced people cut their eggs on day 50 and wonder why they have issues. It is not a problem for the experienced breeder that knows how to protect these early cut eggs, but the average person comming on here isn't producing their 100th clutch of eggs, it's usually their 1st and now they will think it's ok to cut on day 50 and if the snake hasn't crawled out by 55 just pull them out.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons, boas, dogs, cats, fish, an amel tiger retic female, a couple sulcatas and a few other odds and ends.

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

OK Josh, you have no idea what you are saying. I gave this person what I thought to be good advice according to the information givin. The advise I gave her comes directly from the Barkers newest book page 243. They removed 2 snakes from eggs that had become a little to sour. They also ran them under water. So I guess I was misinformed by one of the most experience ball python breeders in the country. Or maybe you just don't have a clue about the matter. This is not the first time I have seen you bash someone for making a mistake. Like I said before...I was interested in helping this person not tell them about what they did wrong. I have had a snake pip an egg and never come out on it's own. I removed it and found it had a twisted umbilicus. I was able to save the snake by untwisting it and placing it in a small cup on moist paper towels. I had to remove it from the egg in order to do that. I also rinsed it off under running water. That snake happens to be a prize snake to this day. If your on the forum to help people please do so.
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Dino W.

That looks like it could be a bacterial infection that was introduced when you cut the eggs. Are the snakes inside alive (i.e. moving...my guess is they are dead if they stink)? Smells and films are sure signs of bacteria. Whether or not the bacteria went to work post mortem, or was the cause for death...who knows?

did you say you pipped the eggs? was there a reason you didnt want to wait for them to pip on their own? i would make sure the utensil you are using to cut eggs is clean. hopefully you didnt introduce a bacteria like the others mentioned. goodluck and keep us posted
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Wayne and Ryan
Dark Continent Reptiles
www.darkcontinentreptiles.con

Yes i pipped. I almost always pip as do many others on this forum.

Lots of people smoke cigs but that doesn't make it a good idea either.

This early cutting thing developed over the past several years. I think the best policy is to wait for a good portion of a clutch to pip on its own, then cut any that haven't pipped with 24-48 hours.

Where and why the practice of proactively pipping eggs, sometimes as early as 50 days in, came from is beyond me. Other than curiosity, there is no real reason to cut them except as I outlined above. A lot of people do it, but why??? Its pretty clear that in at least some cases, it has a negative impact...

Just out of curiosity how many clutches have you hatched out? Just wondering the extent of your experience in incubating and hatching eggs.

Oh, I dunno....probably 50 - 60 clutches involving colubrids, carpet pythons, but mostly balls. Small time, but enough... I also have been published in Reptiles Magazine, an incubation article no less...

I've never lost an egg because I didn't cut it...and that means something, doesn't it?

Sure does. Thanks.

I will cut eggs (small v-shaped slit, not a large section of shell removed) once many of the clutch have pipped on their own. Never before, and certainly never in the 50--54 day range as some advocate...

Take a clean probe and gently poke the babies to determine if they are alive and if they are leave them alone the will come out on their own.They can go longer in the egg,this is not an exact science.Terry

No need to get snitty. The fact is that whatever is wrong with these hatchlings (assuming they live) you did to them. You cut too early. Whether you think you are experienced or not, you messed up. Hopefully you'll learn from this.
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www.strictlyballs.ca

Cutting the eggs caused deformities ?????????

Did I say that cutting eggs causes deformities?....I don't think I did...
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www.strictlyballs.ca

>>Lots of people smoke cigs but that doesn't make it a good idea either.
>>
>>This early cutting thing developed over the past several years. I think the best policy is to wait for a good portion of a clutch to pip on its own, then cut any that haven't pipped with 24-48 hours.

I rarely pip and have no issues. These guys pip when THEY are ready, not when YOU are ready.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I never pip until the first one does or it goes beyond 60 days!

This person was not asking about cutting eggs on a certain day or anything about pipping. They were asking for help about a situation that was already in play. Leaving snakes in the egg after they have become a rotting mess is not good advise.
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Dino W.

you nowadays people have no patients. everyone wants things fast fast fast.

pretty soon we'll have people cutting eggs at day 30???

Pitoon

The scissors i used were sterile. They are both still alive but have massive amounts of yolk still not absorbed. I dont think they will make it. Besides the one healthy one the only other one was deformed but alive. I took them out of the egg but they have so much yolk i have never seen that before on a snake that was incubated at the temps and lenght i did.

Hey Noah

I would think that its from cutting to much to fast? Did You hit alot of veins,when You cut those. Thats what causes the grayish white film. It will quagulate and rot,but most eggs can take it abit.. I stay right on the surface when cutting and always candle the egg before. So You know where those big Veins are.. Thats the only thing I can think of, I hope this helped

Van
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=288590239

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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

WOW, that stirred up a big stink. I would and I know you did take them out of the rotting mess. As far as the yolk goes,as long as the sack is not twisted they will absorb it. If it looks twisted just gently turn it so the yolk can flow. If you have the Barkers book it has a picture of 2 snakes that were obviously taken out of the egg for some reason as they have yolk still remaining in the sacks. I think they specifically talk about the liquid in the egg going sour. I am not saying cutting and taking snakes from the egg at 53 days is good as I only cut on day 55 or later. If something went wrong and the eggs are becoming sour...don't let them sit in decaying material and rot because someone does'nt advocate cutting eggs. Hope all works out for you.
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Dino W.

I had the same issue due to cutting too early.
It's not really a problem, I cleaned the bad yolk every two days by letting it dripping out the eggs.
After a week hatchlings started to break out and all were born healthy and are excellent snakes.
Just another lesson you learned..

Thanks to all those that replied with info that actually pertained to this situation. Yes I did learn a lesson. The hard way. I have decided not to pip anymore unless the others do and after 24-48 hours or its day 60. I have done both in the past and it worked out fine. For some reason these were not as developed as the last clutch i pipped on the same day. Thanks again to those who had something worthwhile to say.

Simple: the yolk is rotting because you pipped them too early. They won't absorb any of that yolk, and you'll need to get them out of the eggs. You're behind the eight ball for sure with these babies. My recommendation is to not pip the eggs for the babies until AT LEAST day 56. They may not survive or at best will be very small and undernourished until you can (maybe) get them eating.
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www.strictlyballs.ca

WOW so many experts on the subject of egg cutting,by the way no one asked for help on egg cutting.

My point exactly. This person was asking what they should do about there current situation. That being snakes in eggs that are rotting. Most people agree that cutting eggs is not always necessary especially earlier than 55 to 60 days. I'm sure they got the point about that.
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Dino W.

Well, the post may not have been a debate on when to cut eggs, but it was deffinitely a question on what went wrong and how to fix it.

Something went wrong and they didn't know what (or what to do about it). Maybe some people didn't have a direct answer on what to do for hatchlings, but information on the egg cutting will prevent the problem in the future. Sometimes its not always an attack, but more like constructive criticism. It could have saved future hatchlings that person may have, and people shouldn't get so easily offended.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

A certain big breeder -- once told me that if they started smelling funky -- to dump all the yolk out and pull open the sac and the snakes would absorb and come out.

Sorry -- haven't had to use said advice -- so I couldn't tell you if it works. But I would think it can't be good to let them keep stewing in a funky mess.

I think I would at least try to dump out some of the muck and see how it goes.

Good luck!
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Tosha
JET Pythons

exactly.........I just went thru this...I cut my eggs at day 52 by day 60 they were still chillin in the egg.....I popped the sack in which the snake was in and in about 48 hours all were out with no yolk and all are doing great....1.3 normals and 1.0 mojave!

I wouldn pull the snake out of the egg but you could open the sack which will help the snake to quickly use up his or her yolk!

Paul

IMO
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www.myspace.com/apabana

Although Terry pointed out that no one asked for advice on cutting eggs, I'll toss this out anyway in the hopes that someone will find it useful.

Anyone that says, "I cut my eggs on day (whatever)" is guessing the stage of development of the embryo, which is dependent upon the incubation temperature. Most people incubate at around 90 degrees, but if someone has a problem with their incubator, the embryos will still develop at much lower temps. Incubating at, say, 86 degrees will produce an embryo much too young to pip at 56 days.

I have about 10 thermometers and none of them agree on the temp!

Best wishes.

Chris
Coils Select Serpents
www.coilsserpents.com