Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was given a description of a snake someone saw:

The snake was "blue with white/yellow rings on it's body" (not one ring like a ringneck snake and not banded or blotched-BUT distinct rings) Approx 6 feet long.

Now I thought they were a bit crazy until I was given the same description by 2 more unrelated people about 5 years after the first one..

What on earth could they have seen in the woodlands of PA that would meet that description? (exotics included)

Opinions? other than you think they are nuts

and no-no one took a photo--yet.

>>Opinions? other than you think they are nuts

Yep, they are nuts.

Could there be an escaped breeding population of Mangrove Snakes (Boiga dendrophila) in your area? They are glossy black and some people call that "blue"ish.
Somehow I doubt a tropical lowland snake like a Mangrove would last one of your winters up there.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Unless it's an escaped albino California Kingsnake these people saw which are more of a purple/lavender coloration,.....I'd say the people involved with the sightings have a very vivid imagination. That,....or they are picking some "magical" mystery mushrooms!

One thing I've found to be very true over the course of several decades, and that is that the general public's descriptions of snake's that they see are extremely puzzling to me.

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

These only can attain a maximum length of around four to five feet. Keeping in mind that many people that aren't into snakes will usually over-exaggerate the length of a snake that is seen too.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

jeeze...
There just isn't anything native to PA that should look like that. Unless I am talking to someone who handles a lot of snakes I tend to disregard size information. A 4-foot snake easily becomes a 6-foot snake even when someone is comfortable with the animals.

The closest things I can think of would be some sort of blotched species such as a Black Ratsnake that has retained some of its juvenile color pattern or an Eastern Milksnake which should not be blue but the background can be dark gray on occasion.
Here is a pic of a Black Ratsnake with some of the juvenile pattern remaining. It's a bit of a stretch but it's the most likely match I think of:

I can certainly understand how someone might see blue in a black snake. It's tough to explain distinct bands on a snake even somewhat approaching 6 feet in length.

The first thing that popped into my mind was an Eastern King in bad lighting (like at dusk or in a dense forest). Something like that could easily be mistaken by a non-herper as "blue with white rings", and the size would probably be exaggerated a bit as well.

Sort of like this:

k.b5z.net/i/u/2179965/i/EasternKingsnakeJJ18.gif
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- Natalie
(San Francisco Bay Area)

1.0 Banded California King
1.0 Mexican Black King
1.0 Bay of LA Rosy Boa
0.1 San Ignacio Rosy Boa
0.1 Ortiz Rosy Boa
2.3 Kenyan Sand Boas
0.1 Saharan Sand Boa
1.2 Rubber Boas
0.1 Pickering's Gartersnake

I initially thought it might be an Eastern Kingsnake but didn't think that species occurred in PA so disregarded it as an option. I just checked my guide and it looks like it does get into the state just barely in the southeast corner. If the snakes were seen in the southeast part of the state then I officially change my vote to Eastern Kingsnake.
Kiley

I think Eastern King is a good guess for a native species, but they are apparently very elusive and restricted in range in Pennsylvania. IIRC, there are some people who suggest it may be extirpated from the state?

Of course, a rare eastern king is a heck of a lot more parsimonious than a non-native!
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Probably just a garter snake. I've found that people that aren't familiar with snakes, especially those that with a fear of snakes, have zero ability to give a description that actually resembles the snake they saw!

The PA kingsnake legend is a popular topic of conversation for PA herpers, but it's just a legend. They apparently range ALMOST to the border in MD, but not over the border. I was actually talking with a local herpetologist about this, and he remarked that the notion of kings in PA was supposedly based on a specimen in a Lancaster museum, but that when someone tried to actually find the specimen, they had no chainkings from PA in their collections. I think someone must have been a little generous with a range map at some point and that started the whole thing, that and how much PA herpers would love to catch chainkings closer than the Pine Barrens.

As for what that snake could be, I was thinking neonate northern water (they can have a slate blue look) until I saw the six feet part. I like that idea of a black rat with a little bit of a pattern - they're widespread, big, and diurnal.

Billy
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Phillyherping

Thanks for clearing that up. I found an old website with a list of PA snake species and it did not contain any information about kingsnakes. The good ole' peterson guide said otherwise though. From what I hear, Joseph Collins, the co-author of the revised 1998 edition, has not considered altering the range maps in that book if given data that supports such changes even in the unlikely event that a new edition is ever published. Oh well...

Funny you mentioned that!..LOL!,....my friends and I are always talking about that very thing! some of the descriptions I've heard over the years are just unbelievable!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

This may be the only time the word "parsimonious" was ever used on a snake forum.
Nice job!
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Capitol Breeders is:
http://www.freewebs.com/capitolbreeders/index.htm

I was going to mention that & congratulate Chris & promise never to poke fun at him for making a typo again. Now..is that a cross between a parsnip & a persimmon?

~~Greg~~